[Imc-jakarta] Re: Imc-jakarta Digest, Vol 3, Issue 4

Sat Dec 13 20:00:32 PST 2003

Hi guys..

According to what Bond and Daniel said , It's makes me think it wouldn't be as easier as I thought to built up the IMC - JKT. To be honest this is the first time that I try to join independent media like this. I used to cooperate with local collective and discussion groups in my city. I think I must to explain what I've been doing first ( cause as I was remember I didn't told before ). From all of the political collectives and discussion groups I was and I've been joining since 3 years ago. I found that I'm interesting of anarchist perspective , especially for non-hierarchical view but It's also hard to find people who really have the same thought as I do or at least people who have some of perspective that I have but recently I join a collective called Sayap Ikarus and I made another collective too. The collective that I've been joining is talk about how to built a collective group ( affinity group ) , how to organizing our self, discuss some books and made our own independent media
 ( not all of them is anarchist but It's still great ).

Look at what Bond was said , I agree with you. That's right we have to find the people first , that's what I'm doing now and I think It takes little bit longer time that I was expect before and another thinks is I'm afraid if the mailing list mobility won't be so active like another mailing list had because on line isn't a habbit in our country , the people isn't used to using internet to make a communication.
About the IMC-IND , yup I think It's more better to made IMC - City and I'm thinking of to make IMC-Bandung too of course after I find the people and this time I just found a few people to involve.

and It's nice to have daniel,It's really relieved me but daniel I'm afraid we cannot make the website built as soon as we want and I do agree with your idea for having a site built up when the ellection time so we can report what the condition of the ellection looks like.I hope we can make it.

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Re: Imc-jakarta Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2 (boud)

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:45:13 +0100 (CET)
From: boud 
Subject: Re: [Imc-jakarta] Re: Imc-jakarta Digest, Vol 3, Issue 2
To: J0hnBR0WN1 at aol.com
Cc: imc-jakarta at lists.indymedia.org
Message-ID:

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

hi daniel, shakun,
daniel: i know you probably have more experience in indymedia than i do, but
i did spend about two years in the new-imc working group.

It would be great if you two (daniel and shakun) have the time and energy to
prepare a good web site with one of the newer engines. But...

But you should be aware that making a website alone is not making an indymedia
collective. Just think what happens if there are only two active people and it
happens that many readers start using the site at the time of the election.
There'll be:
- lots of spam
- lots of empty words and useless rhetoric from people learning so-called 
"political" skills of manipulation, etc etc
- maybe a few good articles that you two will write and/or find and repost
You would require a lot of time investment to hide the spam and/or overwhelm it 
with good stuff. And a bunch of people writing stuff "on the borderline" will
be angry at "censorship", there'll be misunderstandings, and most visitors will
be discouraged from reading and/or contributing to the site.

Please don't think i want to discourage you, i'm just pointing out that while
you *should* go ahead with making a great web site if that's what you feel is
the priority, you should not make the mistake of thinking that this is *enough*.

In short, the missing thing is for more local people in Jakarta to meet up and
sort out some basic organisational issues.

######
Please look through: 
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo
######

There's a lot of reading to do, but in my experience in new-imc, the
groups that have gone through this seriously (sometimes with some
people getting quite upset because the new group feels that the
organising process is too bureaucratic or violating local autonomy,
but eventually better communicating and developing trust and better
communication) have become very robust, independent and seem to resolve
conflicts and crises constructively.

My own suggestion would be to tackle the hardest thing first: get
various activists you know in Jakarta to join the mailing list, to
introduce themselves, to respond to shakun and start getting used to
talking to each other on a publicly archived mailing list - learning
how to make non-hierarchical, consensus decisions on a mailing list,
then meet face-to-face, discuss what seems to be obvious, and work
through the documents at

http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo

At the same time, if you want to start on a website at the same time,
go ahead! Just don't forget that the "people" side is crucial.

shakun: i don't remember if anyone answered you about IMC Jakarta vs
IMC Indonesia. 

The short answer is that it's a local decision, but that the
collective must be non-hierarchical. It would be hypocritical to give
the name IMC Indonesia if really the group is dominated by people from
Jakarta...

In general, it's thought better to start with a city IMC, because that
way people can meet face-to-face, and it's more likely to be
grassroots and with reporting on real events rather than ideological
generalisations. 

However, many IMCs, especially in Latin America and Europe, have
started out as "national" IMCs, and as more and more people
participate, reorganise into city IMCs with horizontal,
non-hierarchical relations between them. The transition from IMC
France to city IMCs was a very painful transition happening through a
major crisis (part of the problem was domination by the Paris
group). IMC UK seems to have had a much smoother transition to city
IMCs. IMC Italy and IMC Germany keep the "national" name, but AFAIK
are really horizontal networks of many local IMCs.

IMC Poland (where i live! not perl-land ;) is more or less a coalition
of groups of 3-4 most active people in each of four cities in a
horizontal network, plus 50-100 or so people somewhat less active on
email lists and something like 500 visitors daily. We would prefer to
have city IMCs, but we still need to do more serious outreach before
this can happen. (The Warsaw group are the only one of the four most
active cities to *not* have their own mailing list - they use the main
mailing list for announcements of Warsaw meetings, etc... But they don't
really dominate :)

Minta ma'af untuk bahasa inggris, capai...

:)
boud

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 J0hnBR0WN1 at aol.com wrote:

> Shakun,
> Would like to re-introduce myself here. My name is Daniel Tasripin, and I 
> live in New York City, and I'm the son of an Indonesian living here. I've 
> also worked with NYC Indymedia (http://www.nyc.indymedia.org); I also work with 
> an independent radio station, WBAI (http://www.wbai.org).
> Let me say, before anything else, for the sake of international readers, 
> it would be good if the site can get up around the time of the elections. 
> Believe me, the world's eyes will be on Indonesia again!
> So, to go further I have been interested in helping arrange aid from here 
> to go to Jakarta Indymedia, but I have lost contact with Margiyono for some 
> time. I am interested in creating graphics for the site. Also, I would be 
> interested in doing what fundraising I can.
> Unfortunately, I don't know much Bahasa Indonesia, though I do have 
> friends here who have been in PRD who can help. I apologize if this presents a 
> problem.
> I would appreciate if you can translate and send this message to others.
> 
> - Daniel
> 
> In a message dated 12/11/03 3:02:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> imc-jakarta-request at lists.indymedia.org writes:
> I'm really want to built up the IMC-JKT website. I've been learning how to do 
> it right now. There's someone want to help me?
> 

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