[Imc-uk-features] Indymedia censorship - The heart of the Matter

[Space Bunny]

02.04.2003 15:56:58, Mick Fuzz <mickfuzz at rocketmail.com> wrote:

>let's cut to the quick - 
>
>this article is a really good way for us to test our
>editorial guidelines. so that's got to be a good
>thing!

certain aspects, but i think the overall mass of management of the (anti-) war reporting is a greater test.

But I see this as important too hence this email.
>
>I think it's good to start with space bunny's opening
>comments on Tony G - and one of his subject matters of
>interest - Bilderburg. 

The comments of mine on the webpage:

http://j12.org/files/bilder.htm

were put togeather from exchanges I had a while back way before my involvement in IMC  concerning Tony G's and others efforts to promote action against Bilderberg on a par with action against G8 or World Bank 
meetings.

I was attempting to persuade people that was not the case. These are not quite the same arguements I used to say that post should be hidden on IMC, the post was hidden becasue it broke editorial guidelines and 
is racist. I have let other post's of Tony G remain even though I though they we disempowering and I disagreed with them.

I fully accept that the role of IMC editor is not the same as an editor of a publication. Our role is to creat and empowering forum for reporting. And even help those that we disagree have a place to publish there 
reports. An example of this was when I help Paul have his report and photo on Edinburgh Anti War March published. 

http://uk.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=60545

AnarchoBabe then linked to it in her feature on the march. But to show difference in approach AnarchoBabe would not use it much as source material in her role as part of Counter Info collective ( 
http://www.counterinfo.org.uk ). 

BTW Some of CI people put out a anti newsheet, which took reports from IMC, it is in pagemaker format, can any one convert from pagemaker to PDF for us, to get it online, as me and AnarchoBabe do not have 
pagemaker. I am sure we will get thise sort here, but I thought I would ask as I mentioned it.

Anyway Paul is a member of a the SSP, which I wish my comrades where in position to smash as the left wing of capital. But I am happy to not only see his report on IMC but have helped it get there.

I think his report focuses on the most disempowering part of the march. But is usefull in that the reader can make up there own mine the author is honest in there account of the apsects of march that interest them 
and where they are coming from.

If some one is attracted by Pauls report to that iside of the movement, they can follow link to Coalition against the War and get drawn into the SSP.

IMC Scotland is discovering itself and the open organisation aspect seems although frustating at time, to be creating a broad dynamic grouping.

BUT I think Tony G's post is dishonest. It's link to the Amercian Free Press is crowning glory, that meant I felt obliged by my involvement in IMC and respect for our role of ensuring editorial guidelines are followed, 
that it was hidden.

As Tony G revealed in his Squall article his has a working relationship with Spotlight (pre cursor to AFP before they were sued) , to degree he can call them 'sincere'.

I know he will say to use lot things like ' between you and me, I know Spotlight is racist, but that is why the 'Bilderberg' allow their plans to be revealled in there pages' to us lot when we challenge him on it, dodgy 
logic. But what is he saying to AFP?

Please note Spotlight was hard to get hold of in UK as one could go to jail for racial incitement for distroing it ( note 'Spearhead' and now 'Freedom' from the BNP can be distroed legally as they are not openly as 
hardcore racist). It is a pity more of you here have not actually seen Spotlight paper Tony G is drawing people to.  I have yet to see AFP hardcopy myself, mick maybe you should ask Tony G is his has a few copies 
spare as he is your 'friend', and he might trust you. Remember Tony G thinks he is fighting evil in form of the 'Bilderburgers' and that is all that matters to him. His true friends in people and organisations are only those 
that can help in this fight. Everyone else can be betrayed, including you Mick F and IMC. For Tony G there is no one foot in each camp. You will have to make up your mind if you want to choose Tony G path of 
rightousness, or you follow analysis of his output of what he is trying to do by accident or design from us. 

There are a few anti bilderbergers who try to aviod contact and refferance to far right sources one is Mike Peters in Leeds. Tony G will name drop him for lefty crediablity. But why does Tony G not follow Mike Peters 
example and have nothing to do with the American Free Press and other right wing analysis of Bilderberg group.

Is it because they have researchers he relies on not just on Bilderbergers but his enemies blood lines? Yes people on far right do check out if there enemies have bad blood. It is not good to hang out with them.
I guess I have allready been well checked out. I - contact were happy to pass on details of me to Tony G when I was drawn to be involved with helping them with video on Prague s26 prisoners, which never got 
make. I shared with them my concerns about Tony G and then recived and angry call from Tony G.

If you are a true friend of Tony G then the best you can do is to persuade him to cut his links to the far right. But as me and AnarchoBabe are not his friends we are happy to have nothing to do with him (save what 
is forced on us by our sdesire to be involved in IMC) and leave choice to him, and over years he has sunk further into that cesspit. We are not only ones to have warned him about Spotlight/AFP, but it only seems to 
encourage his fantasies. It is only now we find the beutifull soup that IMC is being used by him that we make an effort to explain our views to IMC at large. I think Tony G is beyond hope and not going back for him.

Mike F said:

>I think Indymedia has a duty to have a foot in both
>camps. 

the implications of this have to explored. And an understanding of is that possible?

>It's really not our duty to decide how other people
>protest and remove posts accordingly. When issues like
>this come up, I really think we should lean to on the
>side of leaving the article. 

How has this been resolved before as me and AnarchoBabe are quite new to IMC, and any advice usefull for our developing the soon to be Scotland IMC website.

As you saw AnarchoBabe asked for advice concerning election campaign times which we have entered her in Scotland. I have yet to go back to archives of this list from UK election time. But here is scotland the 
Green party  has a stronger left wing than it's sister in UK, and SSP is stonger than LSA was. This makes more of a problem, but exciting one. We have several memebrs of both party involved in IMC Scotland to 
various degrees. Those that are very involved have full repect for IMC Principles of Unity and editorial guidelines. People leave there Parties at the door. We all keep an eye on each other as we find our way 
forward. Btw I if you want a label for me I am ultra leftist, but I am not a member of any ultra leftist group ( do any exist that would have me?) , although have been quite involved in the Autonomous Centre of 
Edinburgh ( http://www.autonomous.org.uk ) .

>
>It's not an easy job doing the newswire! If I was to
>read the following - my sensors would be on full
>alert. 

great

>But it's not rascist and doesn't incite hate. It's a
>call to guard against nutters who want to create hate.

Yes

>There's a big difference in intent. 
>
This is subtle, and people have to pay attention, and sorry if me and AnrchoBabe do not have full energy it would require to get this all over. I hope what we have said so far and links pointed to have helped.

>Also on another note. I don't think it's good practice
>to remove posts becuase they link to right wing sites,
>Conservatives do research too.  

I disagree and have a line which while very wide of centre does exist and was crossed in this case.

>Finally, There is no part of the editorial guidelines
>which says we should remove Conspiracy Theories, how
>would you possibly define that?

overaching world conspiracy theroies can be defined

but as I siad I hide for racism particularly racist link.

Also as far as free speech goes, where possible I run freenet nodes, therefore donate hardware and bandwidth resources to it, which by nature of freenetproject Tony G is free to use.
It is pure free speech, and a pwoerfull tool to mean any attempt for govt censorship will fail. I reccommed any of you who wish to invoke the ideas of free speech support the freenet project

http://freenetproject.org

I noticed '.net' internet mag at all good newsagents this month distroed freenet for mac and windows. Also it had a fair bit of other free software usefull to have.
Or you can get copies on cdrom from me along with other usefull stuff for imcers eg audio editors.

http://j12.org/sb/freesoft.htm

mick also said:

>I've hung out, broken bread so to speak, with Tony at
>our secret Kabals in the West County, where we plot
>the overthrow of shadey unaccountable organisations
>like indymedia, which we infiltrate from the inside.

I think you need to be carefull with saying things such as this.

I recognise that humour can break the ice when people don't know each other at face to face meetings. 

If it intended as humour then it should pointed out that humour does not not come over well in email.

I say the same to everyone including my fellow imcers in Scotland. 

Also I think with the subject at hand being so serious when faced with people with views such as those express by the American Free Press, which Tony G links to and operates alongside with no apology or 
disclaimer.

It was a pity that I did not attend the UK IMC networking meeting it would have been good to have face to contact. But we have to also be wary that face to face familiarity does not cloud ones judgement of what is 
written.

btw if it was not humour I will take it as resignation from IMC. As no one who confesses to infiltrating an org should expect to remain in it, or is IMC different to allow people to stay in it who are hostile to is and use it 
or disrupt it for there own ends.

cheers

Space Bunny

http://www.imcscotland.org