[Imc-uk-network] minutes manchester meeting 14/15 sept - I

[Ana Peña]

 Introductions and setting up of agenda:
 
 Discussion on decentralisation. naming issue, new
imcs-subsections, sharing  workload, common working
practices, codes (mir,...)
 
 workshops - subgroups
  
 decentralisation - can be called regionalisation,
collaboration. For the london  collective it is an
issue to be based in London and work on a uk. Now with

 Bristol and other prospective sites the site as it is
now might have to change,  there have been discussions
as whether it should become a portal to other sites, 
 or ...
 
 
 when we opened the uk site, it was related to other
alternative media groups, we  had this dicussion and
there was a push for it to be uk wide, representative
of  more people, regions, than if it was only london.
Now we are in the process in  regionalising, with
people from other than london getting involved, so
maybe it  is time to rethink what we are and where we
are going. So now rather than relate  to existing
media, maybe to region related ppl.
 
 We want to make it as diverse and independent as we
can.
 
  making the uk taking newswire from other sites need
to be with lots of other  site, and also need to set a
server. there is the procedure to set up a new site 
but also there are technical problems like the server.
 
 are there many too many features and that s why we
need more sites answer  
 
  why bristol has a separate site? we wanted to be sth
different, and push that  people contribute...
 
 why not a subsection of the uk? because technically
it is difficult to work in a  subsection. also because
htere was a techie that was ready to collaborate in 
 setting up a server etc, he has experience and that
is what indy is about,  collaboration. it was
difficult to have a subsection and it has been only
after  the creation of the bristol site that we
realised how easy the subsection is.
  
 difference?
 
 subsection ñ need the same server
 
 new site ñ have a different server
 
 it is not too sustainable and also security reasons
to have everything in the  same server.
 
 clarification - subsection is to share also the
middle columns, a subsection is  another middle column
that needs html 
 
 server - a phisical machine that is connected to the
net everytime and the info  is stored. 
 
 uk uses a software that is used in this server, we
wanted mir and it could not  be done in htat server.
 
 update the subsection is not that hard, subsection
are there depending on the  energy and no. of people
in the colective, but it doesn t need that much work, 
it doenst need techi knowledge. all the lists for
admin are open, we have people  administering the site
from many parts - germany, a tree site.
 
 
 backgroud: we were in london, last 6 monts, a year,
have tried to contact  eacheother those from
liverpool, etc to work together, but id didn work so
we  needed this meeting for it. also to decentralise
from london and not be biased  we needed everyones
input.
 
 the advantage of uk common is that we share the
newswire, dont need to think  which to post.
 
  why crate a london site, have you thought of another
subsection. 
 
 
 uk is to keep all the newswire for every one. 
 
 when ireland wanted a site they had a link, when
techicalities were sorted up  they had their site, so
in some cases it is a temporary measure, then you want
your own newsire, but for the time is a good think 
 
 
 if you have your own site you need to have a policy
for your newsire, eg in  bristol things not from
bristol is hidden so it is a bristol site. also we
have  international news. it was good to have an own
site to be able to make  decisions.
 
 if lots of different sites , would you have to post
things twice, in the north  west england and in the
uk?
 
 london, also to change the server... current not
sustainable
 
  in the end is technical issues, last 2 years, bad
code that we are user - wish  we had a categorising,
it would be so easier. in terms of outreach, we need
more  techie people involved, few people doing so much
work.
 
 
 surprised that decentralisation means to set up your
own site. in germany, the  target is not subsection,
but rotating systems in which each collective works 
for a week, so your collective works every few weeks,
so rather than many sites  just one well done, it is
so much work.
 
 another issue about newswire, the amount of shit.
decentralisation is also about  collaboration,
cleaning the newswire, colaboration also of campaigns
so that  they also post in the site so it is more uk
and less theories and bullocks.
 
 is it not possible to automate the process
 
 it is possible but dont have programs for it.
 
 the heart of indy is the newswire, it is apity to
loose the newswire, would need  to post in somany
wires to have uk wide ... also good that it has major
and  international reports. so would be nice to have a
uk colaborative thing. in my  head, subsections that
would feed from the newswire.
 
 is the no way to , when uploading, check a box to say
i think thats a very  relevant story, and to which
section it should go -
 
 
 
 you have to write a code for it. now active was
developed from 3-4 ideas and no  one ever documented
anything and it is a mess to understand. if we had a
techie  able to understand active would be fine, but
the one that offered to set up a  clasification system
has been offering for a year but it is not happening.
 
 if we want to easily admisiter we should go with mir
and sth like syndication,  as when posting, be able to
say, i want this to be published in this other site 
 too.
 
 admin should not be down to people who know html, it
is good to know but not  necessary, and also the email
lists are there to help. 
 
 technological solutions are going to take at least a
year.
 
 there is one from bristol collaborating in features
of uk, that s a  collaboration  
 
 double posting, need to have sth because there are so
many people who post to  every single site.
 
 need a rating systems too.
 
 we need to fix mechanisms for collaboration, eg crate
a new site, clean wire,  get rotas, hands on and
working every day together, and also get an agreement
as  to whether we move to another software and how.
 
 clear - how to maintain the site, whether we take on
the german model , or how.
 
 admin hte artchive: the indy site is an archive of
all the anti capitalist  movemtne in the past 2 years
and you cant find anything because it is buried in  a
server in seattle.
 
 in scotland, we need a million questions... one of
the questions_ resoiurces_  are the resources of imc
uk to visit scotland and give resources....
 
 imc uk is every one, not people in london.
 
 great idea of having a tour!! weve been asking people
if they wanted us, and it  happend, and a lot happened
but it takes a lot of energy. anarchist travelling 
circus are getting touring and we re thingking of
doing that too. 
 
it is possible, definetely. 
 
 in bristol we had 3 people friom london and it was
great.

 next spring ther eis a tour, between 10 and 20 cities
and towns, there are some  groups involved so it would
be great to link with this.
 
 features need put up, wire needs cleaning and few
people have been doing it, we  really need people. the
way the cleaning and featuring operates through the 
email list that is called features, you can subscribe
yourselves and from there  propose features, taking up
from the newsire, write it and post it. the current 
practice is to wait 24 hours to allow comments etc and
then it would go up to  the central column.
 
 it is also a way to include people who don t have the
password
 
we need one working practice, which is flexible enough
 
 everything else is immediate, only features in middle
column has this 24 hr  delay.
 
 
 24 hr is just a guideline, there is a level of trust,
esp. in cases when it is  urgent that the features
goes up.
 
 needs to be horizontal, that even if you cant work
every day you know there will  be some one else to
improve it, and that there is collaborate.
 
 probloem is tha people dont know how to do it, need
to teach people...
 
 yesterday there were 2 workshops to learn... 
 
 password issue_ it is an issue of trust, we have even
given it ti poeple we ve  never seen because they were
very partivipative and interested.
 
 it is only based in trust, if you have nt got trust
projects like this dont  work. 
 
 the german model, we have tried but didnt work. need
to engage, one or criticism  is when the mid column
doesnt change for days.
 
 24hr, should be more flexible and based in trust,
need to be faster as the web  is, the site needs to
cahnge all the time and that makes people come back
for  info.
 
 
 sounds caotic, in editing, two people may be working
in one feature at the same  time, one putitng bold,
one cutting, how does it work out ..
 
 we have found ways for this, esp in days of big
actions when 20 of us can be  working on the site.
 
 nowadays, it would work with the groups present,
bristol, manchester,  liverpool... that would nt mean
that people from london would disspear.
 
 you dont need to be 100% sure of hte feature you ve
made. you can just post it  to features and ask for
collaboration, dont need to put the feature up
yourself.
 
 the uk name issue. british irelands or uk?
 
 24 hour, we nee immediacy, eg. genoa...
 
 the more people involved in the site the more
interesting it will make for more  people, rather than
more local imcs. 
 
 
 name issue round:
 
  Britain, without the Great.
  
 uk is accessible, its all over the place.
 
 uk as united kollectives 
 
 imc england ireland and wales
 
 british isles is an inclusive term. not uk.
 
 uk for navigation, so its practicality really, is
already there, then uk for  united kollectives but its
too trendy.
 
 britain.
 
 if in belfast, then it is a problem
 
 uk site...
 
 keep uk for hte moment as for the accessibility.
issue when more imc sites  running, when we can
syndicate content...
 
 english speaking europe
 
 uk as united kollectives .also the languages that
people speak: scottish,  welsh...
 
 uk needs to stay in the url. 
 
  
 uk is one of very few sites that is "national", even
some of them are breaking  up.
 
 
 if at the top we put united kingdom, united
kollectives, also to "say" where we  come from.
 
 keep in mind that people doesnt necessariy live in
britain but the uk site is  the uk site.
 
 
  whats the extengt of collaboration of peole in
northern ireland 
 
 
 one person from ireland shes now more in contact with
irish people
 
 
  britain is really a geographical reference, uk is a
reference we just hate the  kingdom
 
 
  great britain sounds a lot more colonial
  
 
 domain exists as co.uk
 
  
 scotland is happy yo be on the uk site
 
 
  Decisions seems to be that all like the UK with out
ref. to the Kingdom, many  also like the Kollective
ref.
 
  
 Break - Lunch.

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