[Imc-uk-network] building the United Collectives and autonomy (was: Re: communication with imc groups on mir)

[Space Bunny]

Summary:

IMC Scotland will use MIR and a same time develop own website with DadaIMC, the 
two solution complimenting each other and strengthening IMC Scotand and whole 
IMC network as a whole.

21.04.2003 21:18:26, ionnek <ionnek@gmx.net> wrote:

>Also, I'm not sure if imc Scotland wants to run their own site on imc uk 
>mir. 

Yes, I, AnarchoBabe and certainly others am looking forward to working with MIR. 
As you can see a lot of effort has been put into creating the Scotland sub 
sections on IMC Scotland. We will be moving this content over to new MIR set up, 
managing regional newswire. I am really looking forward to working with MIR as 
are many up here. Simply on the fact publishing will work which fact it often 
does has done much to put people of using IMC websites. Also it be technically 
easier to draw people into collective IMC Scotland editorial effort, which while 
hands on training sessions / get togethers have been held under existing set up  
has been held back by fact that sub pages are awkard hack on active. The idea of 
going for sub pages was to help build editorial sense, which is hard in abstract  
bettter forged in heat of tasks of doing it, while awaiting an IMC scotland 
website.

>In lancester, the delegates from scotland said that they are working 
>on a separate imc page, and don't want to participate in the mir project. 

I was not there but what I heard was that in the morning it was explained that 
the aspiration to have a IMC Scotland website had allways been an aspiration of 
many who joined the banner of IMC Scotland and the sub page on IMC UK was seen 
as a steping stone to this, it was made clear that us in IMC Scotland still 
wished to work closly with the IMC group in London and the evolving United 
COllective especially with the new IMC MIR set up. The process of implimenting a 
web solution for IMC Scotland is well in hand but has not been realised yet and 
will be at least a few weeks before it is. Also after it has been set up, 
established   and fine tuned, admins trained, we will look to optimising the use 
of RSS syndication for display of scotland articles in each web solution 
databases on each others newswires. Both MIR and dadaIMC support RRS, and we 
have on hand United Collectives own RSS expert in form of Chris from Sheffield. 
After both web solutions are set up you will see how this develops. To begin 
with there may be need to manually asure stories that appear on one are moved to 
other site but long terms gains are worth this. Like all one off pains of 
transfer to MIR the gains of move are well worth it.

I hear by the afternoon as Lancaster meeting some of the delegates from Scotland 
got fed up at there assurances of continued co-opertaion on networked reporting, 
content creation and around tech issues being ignored in preferance

There may be a feeling that with efforts being put into an IMC scotland web site 
that means less being put into MIR. I am certain that is not the case, and am 
sure that will be demostrated over time.

The minutes for the lanc meeting were released despite some in IMC scotland 
requesting they be delayed pending clarification from IMC scotland on it's 
position to make sure the minute reflected sitution in accurate and contructive. 
But the minutes were released anyway admittedly with some folded in response to 
the draft of minutes. 

A suggested IMC Scotland position was produced.

http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-uk-network/2003-March/000212.html

but development of it has not been a priority. In fact a true position is only 
developed in practise. I hope over next few months you will see this.

>In their "about us" [ http://www.uk.indymedia.org/scjoin.php3 ] of the 
>scotland subsection on the existing imc uk page, imc scotland states 
>clearly that it "has had its growth significantly hampered by not being a 
>fully independent IMC", and "would rather have the autonomy to solve our 
>own problems". Can someone clarify?

Yes, those who are joining 'IMC Scotland' in sense people join an IMC group 
really are joining 'IMC Scotland' and not IMC UK although they are very inspired 
by IMC UK. The firming up of ther existance of IMC Scotland is not a split with 
United Collectives IMC as those invovled in IMC here have never really been part 
of IMCUK which for a long time was really a london group. It had to be to build 
itself organically before it could be strong enough to build a network or 
federation with emerging IMC groups in area of United Collectives influence.

IMC Scotland is in a delicate state. Usually a new group grows organically in 
number of people taking on tasks required to sustained a group with it's 
profile, interest and tasks at hand but as IMC Scotland came with a profile and 
undertanding of what it was established by hard work of those in IMC collective 
in London and other groups around the world, many flocked to the IMC banner the 
churn rate was very high. Many people allready invovled in many other projects 
which have tradition model of organistion which it was easy to retreat to 
awaiting for the core of sustainablity of IMC Scotland to grow, but leaving a 
catch 22 situation. I hear IMC UK in london began with a group of people used 
working togeather in another in RTS and other groups. While many of those in IMC 
scotland and many who are waiting to get involved as things firm up. Have worked 
togeather in past. IMC Scotland is essencially people coming togeather new to 
each other and that takes time to work, in fact it works better with real task 
at hand. The most successfull hi profile event under Indymedia banner here has 
been the camcorda guerrila weekend ( http://www.imcscotland.org/camcorda.htm ). 
An open collective effort to do reporting at faslane is under way which will 
further bond and clarify how IMC Scotland works within itself and with wider 
network. There is a tendancy on part of some to find IMC a bit anoymous. I have 
been pushing that solution to this is for us to get to know each other through 
practical co-operative tasks and not to retreat to closed groups.

IMC Scotland and IMC Uniteed Collective as network will only grow in strength 
and unity through bonding through co-operation over practical tasks of reporting  
(or enabling or reprting) in all it's forms.

I have been one who has wellcomed the move to define UK as United Collectives. I 
guess uk was used used as name of group because domain naming as .uk and if not 
for this it would have been IMC London like IMC Seattle it co-founding IMC 
group. There were moves in global imc process that in end never were full 
implimented to urge emerging IMCs to not adopt names of nation states but cities 
where possible. I roughly agree with this. But truth is IMC Scotland does reflex 
the grouping that is around the name, and even hardcore anti nationalists such 
as myself and AnrchoBabe never really pushed using anything else (though we are 
tempted to push to be renamed IMC ugul-boogul as part of full re examination of 
ourselves as IMC Scotland once there is a IMC scotland web site and a growing 
body of people organising and reporting under IMC Scotland banner. There are a 
rainbow of views on the nation question of those involved in IMC scotland, as on 
many other issues.

I hope to add something to the indymedia twiki docs on above area to evolve 
understanding of where IMC scotland is at. IMC scotland can not be defined by it 
new imc process docs but by it practice which is in rapid evolution and flux and 
as a result some confusion, but that is on of joys of open organisation.

I have only just lost my imc twiki doc virginity with Indymedia with

http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/UkImcGraphics

I heard a response to someone from Scotland mentioning at an imc meeting in 
London how it would be nice to see minutes of London meetings and not doing so 
meant those not able to attend meeting felt out of touch, that someone missed 
the point and felt that it was been asked for permission to be sought for   
everyone 'if I do a video in London do I have to tell lancaster folk'. No, this 
misses the point. I hope to start to get it over here and later. That to talk of 
de-centralition of UK IMC is not true as it has not had anyone outside who feels 
part of IMCUK in any other way than all IMC users in general due to London 
meetings. The point as new groups as they spring up around the area of IMCUK  
appeal which with name change may now inlclude the Isle of Man and the Channel 
Islands but lays no claim to Northern Island, they work out realtionship with 
IMC London most people involved did not feel they were part of IMCUK and loyalty 
to it in same was those that attend london meetings do. That is why is is more 
like federalisation. And IMC scotland is not a split from IMCUK as no one in it 
was a part of IMCUK before they became part of effort to form IMC Scotland. We 
are coming togeather not spliting a part.

Scotland is defined by IMC scotland to be as large as our imagination so can 
include any of you too. We allready have working links with people in Newcastle, 
Belfast and elsewhere, in addition to one through this network. I do not 
recognise state borders on my imagination.

There are stroing cluteral and working activist link throught these isles which 
will be reflexed in growing IMC United Collectives network.

These feeling are reflexed within IMC scotland itself as to who who feels part 
of emerging elements of IMC Scotland and are being overcome. They are may 
differnet elements of emphasis that each person can have that will draw them to 
IMC and in turn by them being IMC draw others. Filmmaking or web work, activist 
or creative, Location, the milieu one hangs about, there is much overlap and 
blending.

When IMC london group began it allready had an outward impression with regard to 
these aspects that attracted like people. IMC Scotland has grown so fast with 
high churn, it displays many impressions and attracts many people so it can be 
like a meeting in a pub with several floors where people end up meeting on 
different floors without realising some find the meeting does not suit them and 
leave but later return and find the meeting that suits. In time these meeting 
will work togeather but to force or rush them to do so may destroy them.

I hear that IMC london took two years before it was established and strong 
enough before could work in any meaningfull way with strong establish 
traditionally organised closed groups such as Undercurrents.

In IMC Scotland a group has evolved and still very much being born that 
identifies's Camcorder Gurrillas . It bears similar passions to those that drove 
Undercurrents.

It is hard to get a full impression from emails on lists alone but one of 
elements of the first real push to set up IMC Scotland became this Camcorda 
grouping is the biggest most visable to many people side of IMC.

Many of the people who would build imc more in image of London grouping are 
waiting on sidelines busy with other projects untill IMC scotland website 
exists. MAny have voluteered to help admin new IMC scotland website even though 
not had time to be on IMC Scotland disccuss email lists, also many left behind 
due to just beeing on imc-scotland-information list.

Im am egar myself to escape static webpage update hell by using rss syndiction 
form IMC Scotland radicalander for websites such as 
http://www.edinburghcity.org.uk and http://www.autonomous.org.uk

Many people here are despearated to see an IMC Scotland site. For one thing it 
make it easer form me to put tio people that they should add url to flyers.

Note the 3 mass printed indymedia flers produced here ( 2 glossy  for film 
showings and 1 for Camcorder weekend ) did not have any website url on them. I 
was not party to this desicsion and not sure of thinking behind it, in fact I 
don't think it was a decison so much as urls were not in head space of people 
who did the flyers but I don't want to grip about past I point this out to show 
some reasons for the roadmap of evolution of IMC Scotland.

Counterinfo ( http://www.counterinfo.org ) is exploring links with IMC Scotland.
In fact it's folk did a massive run newssheet ( 
http://www.j12.org/lothian/antiwar/awaredin.pdf ) that had stuff lifted from IMC 
UK website especailly gogs (aged 15) article who would never have visit ACE or 
got involved direct with CI but was happy to post to IMC who profile was 
increase amoung the youth who occupied pinces street as anarchobabe did audio 
interviews   whereing orange IMC sticker (obtained at lanc gather, they have 
come in usefull, I will where one today at faslane). The interviews can be found 
on links on IMC scotland sub page.

Also if any involved in United Collective network wishes to visit some of us in 
Scotland please do let us know. We can help with places to stay, and will 
wellcome meeting you. I suggest that any IMCUKer who is visiting Scotland 
introduces themselves on the imc-scotland-discussion list which is equilient of 
of main orgainising that all emerging imc groups start with, the main point of 
contact for imc.

note: the other imc-scotland-information list is pretty much defunct and has 
caused much confusion which is why I had a prefference for it not to be listed 
on UKIMC contacts page. Few if any imcs have such a 'low load' list as it 
reinforces a mistaken image of IMC as tradition commmitee like orgainsiation 
rather than open YOU are media org that it is. The setting up of list was a 
product of decitions being made without hindsight based on experiance being 
brought to imc which does not necessarily apply to open organisation. There is 
much of this which with time and patience will pass.

Also please note with the war and other issue the amount of human resources to 
spend on IMC network has been limited. But despite this as you can see from my 
posts on email and participation in IRC meeting at least, the inviting and take 
up of IMC UK members to recieve the hospitalitity of IMC Scotland here, the 
visiting of AnarchoBabe to IMC scotland to IMC London meeting it has been shown 
that IMC Scotland wishes to have close working links with IMCUK. And it could be  
seen as very unhelpful to infer otherwise from decison to press ahead with 
implimentation of DadaIMC on ibiblio servers as web solution for IMC Scotland, 
and decision of IMC to go through new imc process.

Many more talents and commitment will be brought the whole IMC United 
Collectives network for these efforts being made to build an IMC Scotland on 
path set out by IMC Scotland.

But if you wish any further clarication in meantime then feel free to ask 
further questions or ring me ( my number is held by some of your fellow IMCers 
in London or email me for it )

But a look over imc tech and IMC Scotland archives may help too, or it may throw 
up more questions :) .

One more effort if we are to be IMC United Collectives.

yours in the struggle,

Space Bunny
Edinburgh

http://www.imcscotland.org
http://j12.org/sb/

PS I am going to miss bus to Faslane if I don't get this off now and don't want 
to elave it, so must dash.