[Imc-uk-process] Re: [IMC-bristol] (no subject)

[Kyra]

dear vg / all
i'm glad that this list attracts people who speak as they find. however, 
the conclusions you have drawn are wrong.
i appreciate that you, vg, joined this list to get involved in making 
b-imc work, not to take a ringside seat on some infighting. sorry about 
this, and as i am not a 'bully' or a 'rotten soul', i assure you that i 
will be the first to be glad when this is all over and we can get back 
to, as they say, business as usual.

until recently this list has been a productive tool for the group, but 
tony's insupportable behaviour - mainly conducted off-list and in 
face-to-face meetings, so not publicly archived for you to trawl back 
through - has brought us to this point. for those of us who've been at 
bristol meetings and been in communication with the wider network, its 
been clear that this has needed to come out into the open for a while, 
which is why i began this discussion, so that we can clear the air and 
move on. on the contrary to your assumption, vg, i am making a big 
effort to do this in a way that is fair to everyone, tony included, 
although i accept that in some ways its not fair that any of us should 
be distracted from the more important aspects of indymedia, and in fact 
life in general, by having to sort this out.

as this is a public list i expected that not everyone would be up to 
speed on the issues we are discussing, and there is a very real danger 
that the majority of people on this list arent interested in this debate 
and will be turned off by this thread. however, this debate does need to 
happen, and it seems important that this debate is held in an 
accountable way, rather than in secret. so it is welcome for people to 
raise concerns about anything they read on this list, and i'm not trying 
to slap you, vg, down, its just that as your conclusions about me, and 
my motivations, are wrong, in fairness to myself i want to make this clear.

there is a difference between whistle-blowing and fabrication. the 
reason i admire katherine gun is because what she did was an act of 
principle and because she believed she was revealing truth - there is no 
parallel between her actions and and tony's undermining b-imc by telling 
other media and individuals things that he admits he knows are false. 
had katherine gun claimed that GCHQ were bugging kofi annan, whilst 
knowing this to be a lie, her actions would have rather less value i 
think? tony's weblinks / far-right sympathies / etc. - or not - are 
really not the central issue here: its the fact that he has 
intentionally made damaging accusations about the group that he knows 
arent true. lets not get distracted by making judgements about his 
private beliefs, that is not our place: its his public actions that 
concern me.

i ask for vg, and others, to have some patience with us as we get this 
sorted out, in the hope that resolution will be swift. whilst it is sad 
that we have to go through this, the feedback from sam, a606 and others 
convinces me that this is a group i continue to want to work with, and 
the willingness from those newer to the list to give their opinion is 
also encouraging. more than two years into the b-imc project, there have 
been no conflicts except around tony and i think thats a good record for 
such an open group. i am sure that vg and anyone else who may be 
unsettled by this thread and doesnt actually know any of us would be 
pleasantly surprised by the full picture.

finally,it is important to clarify for vg and others who may not know, 
that ian and tony worked together for some years, and their frustration 
with each other extends beyond imc boundaries: i for one dont feel able 
to mediate on this. whilst in the current thread ian may seem the bully, 
the boot has undoubtedly been on the other foot at times - tony's 
legendary 'ians evil' phase of accusations spring to mind. i am not 
condoning ian's wrath now any more than i would condone tony's wrath 
then: i understand that people at a remove from the two of them may be 
unsettled by ian finally caving in and letting rip, and i dont 
particularly want to be seen as defending that, but having witnessed 
tony's anti-ian campaign over the last year or so i can see where its 
coming from and i am sorry that ian has had to take so much shit before 
we as a group took action. as a result of having this debate now, i hope 
none of us, tony and ian included, will have to take any more abuse.

it is good to have a fresh perspective on the whole thing, and whilst i 
dont enjoy being mistaken for a nasty piece of work, i guess i knew that 
i was opening up a whole can of worms in tackling this head on.
i hope that this answers some of your concerns, vg, and hope to see you 
at a meeting sometime - i appreciate people speaking out when they see 
something they dont like the look of, thats what its all about after all...

kyra



v g wrote:

> I signed up to get the BIMC mailing list stuff coz I thought it might 
> be interesting. Instead Im getting a load of emails that are just 
> bloody offensive. "Goslings shit"... blah blah blah. I thought I'd 
> better check back a bit before making comment on all this bull so I 
> checked Tony Goslings site - and found absolutely bugger all there 
> worth screaming about. There is so much and so many links to so many 
> things its hard to see how anyone could pick a couple and hold that 
> against the man - I personally like to read all sorts and all sides to 
> make up my mind fully, and to 'know my enemy'. All the mailing list 
> stuff, as well as the old articles I read, appear to be some really 
> offensive self righteous types ganging up on Tony G, who is always 
> polite, if often sarcastic. Ian you are a bully, a nasty offensive 
> bully who needs to rethink the way he talks to and about people. You 
> obviously have a real hatred of Tony G, but you dont need to taint 
> everyone else with your venom and spite. And all that bullshit about 
> TG printing 'private' emails - did you cheer on Katherine Gunn and Dr 
> Kelly when they revealed secrets? I know I did. And I'll bet that you 
> havent got TGs signature under the secrets act. If you're going to 
> send someone offensive, threatening and appalling emails then tough 
> shit when it doesnt remain private. If you dont want people to know 
> you said it, then DONT SAY IT. As for all the most recent comments 
> from Kyra backing up Ian, without mentioning his insults, while also 
> having a go at TG for his language which was mild, even though I 
> wouldve been seriously provoked in his place... well all I can say is 
> that you wouldnt know what fair meant if it punched you in the face. 
> Ive never met a single one of you and to be honest I wouldnt want to 
> if this crap is anything to go by. I cant believe that adults behave 
> in this ridiculous school yard way. ; BIMC is supposed to be A Good 
> Thing, but it seems behind the scenes its controlled by a couple of 
> rotton souls. No wonder the site is always full of shit and insults, 
> look at the people running it.
> I wonder how many other people recieving these mailing list emails are 
> as disgusted as I am? Cheers for wasting my time and making me feel 
> disgusted to be this species.
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