[New-imc] eau.indymedia

[boud]

Salut Massalia,

On Thu, 2 May 2002, massalia wrote:

> >Boud wrote:
> >But I think the Le Pen vote in France illustrates perfectly why >most
...
> >Radical political parties have done the grassroots contact work;
> >non-hierarchical Indymedia activists should do this too.

>  With respects, I do feel offended. Why do you think I helped

My apologies - I did not mean to sound like I'm accusing you of not
being committed, sincere activists aware of the need for grassroots
contacts, and on rereading the message it does sound like it could
be a personal attack - toutes mes excuses; it wasn't meant that way.  

> launching Indymedia in France almost two years ago? What are you
> assuming?  Please this is not because some people tell you that
> they're more interested in an issue that they forget or deny all the
> others and don't act locally!!!  JP, the person who launched the
> idea of this site about water, was arrested in Prague and spend a
> whole week in a tchec prison. You definitely don't need to remind
> him what fascism is or how important it is to loccaly and
> internationally fight against it. He didn't wait for you. Nor did
> I. I was in Genova too. And the latest thing I want is to see you
> guys confronted to the fascist Le Pen police next year for the G8
> summit in France!

> Seattle showed how important it is to fight together but with
> different ways. I don't think you need me to give you all the
> written materials that make links between capitalism and fascism. I
> guess you're aware of it. We've all locally fought against fascism,
> long before the last poll results. We've all locally fought against
> capitalism too. And one way (but sure, among others) is to fight
> against capitalism by focusing on the water issue because of all the
> reasons we developped when we introduced the website to this list.
> And don't worry, all the people interested in this water site have
> been spending their whole week in different towns demonstrating
> against fascism and Le Pen, will continue doing so and have been
> doing much more than just demonstrating :-)
 
>  If at last people on this list aren't interested in this focused
> site, we'll then set up a "special page' on france indymedia as
> there may be a possibility that it stays on line. But it'd be a pity
> as we think this issue is much wider. I just hope that this isn't
> because you've had what seems to be a bad experience with issue
> sites that you're reluctant. The following don't have to be the
> sames...

OK, trying to be factual without blaming people... You say here

"there may be a possibility that [france indymedia] stays o line."

It seems that this means that there is a problem with the grassroots
contacts in terms of Indymedia style collectives in France. This
doesn't mean that you and JB have not done your best (or 110% of your
best!) to get them running, but it does seem to say that you're not
sure whether or not a "national" French IMC or any French city IMCs,
in the sense of Indymedia collectives, (i.e. groups of people who meet
locally, openly, non-hierarchically, etc. to discuss and carry out
independent media activities using consensus style decision-making
processes), is right now or will be soon running successfully and
sustainably.

To be positive, here's a modification of Dri's informal proposal:

http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2002-May/003443.html

###
> The way i see this could happen is (i accept sugestions here)

0 - put a central column feature on IMC France encouraging local
collectives to be formed around France and explaining that there
is no contradiction between having IMC France and French city IMCs,
pointing them to
http://newimc.indymedia.org
and explaining that *in addition* to forming "conventional" local
IMCs, there are hopes that many of these new local IMCs would have
features on water issues and work towards a new type of IMC, a
"water" IMC.

> 1 - a draft project sent to all IMCs (by imc-proposals) with an invitation
> letter to join a list (watter at indymedia.org, for exemple)
> 2.1- on line discussion to explain how the aqua.indymedia.org could work
> (tech issues and administration),
> 2.2 - ellaboration of the documents the new imc process request, plus a
> letter explaining how would be the participation of the different
> groups/indivuduals from existing or non existing imcs

2.2bis - IMHO, it would be particularly encouraging to other Indymedia
people if you talked about how IMC France (or local French city IMCs)
are (were) being organised, were preparing (in the case of city IMCs) to
make new-imc requests, and then of course say which of them are 
especially interested in/likely to work on the water issues.

> 3 - another request to new imc wg.
###


Comments - 
 0 - Maybe there are better alternatives to 0, but given the confusion
about the state of IMC collectives in France, it seems the most
obvious start to me. IMC France readers may *not realise* that they
are welcome to start local IMCs.

 2.2bis - This is just making the point 2.2 more explicit, especially
given that it sounds like you *do* have really good grassroots contacts
in France.

Well, hopefully my comments sound more constructive this time, and
maybe this modified proposal could satisfy those who have arguments
against "theme" IMCs...

bon courage
boud