[axxs-sysadmin] Strike breaking by axxs?

[dave at netaxxs.com.au]

On 7/10/06, mick lambe PARIAH <pariahnt at yahoo.com> wrote:
> You made a decision to host 'arafura' - despite knowing it was insulting to
> us and would prolong this drama.
>
> If you can dispute any of the facts we'll pull the articles.

No, I'm not getting into the argument as you define it, I can't speak  
for everyone in the various groups that came to the decision and just  
speaking from my part, I delivered the message and said my view, that  
took more guts than just dropping a one liner. I am sticking to the  
fact that it was agreed that axxs.org will not host sites where  
individual posts aimed at individuals, posts such as you have on the  
DIMC site, which are using it as a platform for total character  
assassination via google etc. I have been pointed at these for months,  
it's got to the point where myself, my workplace, associated  
collectives we work with on axxs.org, do not want to actively support  
day in day out dealing with it all. It is draining incentive in all  
areas, the fallout is more than your immediate battle or enemies, and  
you don't seem to care that it's come to the point that we are having  
to do this. Your now making us part of this whole mess, and _having_  
to deal with it.

By all means point out posts on other sites hosted by axxs.org that  
are specifically aimed at individuals like those are. Let's all start  
working it out .. should you all be doing that?? or don't work  
together. easy fix

> Stacy Scheff did travel here (NT) and met with the people we expelled,
> breaking an agreement to meet with our collective. That's conspiracy. She
> also tried discrediting my work - and 'proving' our people were just dupes
> and unaware of events. Backfired horribly.
>
> Then creating 'arafura' because we refused to be bullied by the Oz IMC.

Do you think we should censor them by not allowing them the same  
ability to put forward their case as you have? should you have more  
opportunity to put forward yours than they can, wrong or right? That  
is Indymedia's issue, and they are just one of the groups on the server.

the point is the aims of the posts as we see them, is something we  
don't want to be dealing with day in day out, and having to deal with  
the issue.

> So you 'defacated in our loungeroom' by hosting these people expelled by an
> afilliated imc. People who have run racist campaigns and threatened us at
> our homes. Admitted.
>
> You are not interested in facts. You ignore evidence.

No, I haven't really read much if any of it really after you started  
with hosting on the server, I get an awesome amount of email no joke  
:| I pretty much work flat out atm (heck for as long as I can  
remember), and still behind on things, other projects I am involved  
with have been suffering as I haven't had time to put in where I want  
too, I'm inundated with mailing list posts and people passing me  
interesting links, all good, and just going thru advisories, the logs  
and morning email from the servers and such posting out, is literally  
booked in the first two to three hours of my day, and most of that I  
have to put off replying to later, let alone actual projects to get a  
crust, if the next batch of email doesn't have me building my task  
list. there's only so many hours in the day dangnabbit, and so much  
happening.

>
> We were falsely accused of lying by these people.

I'm not saying yea or nay, as I said, I really don't know much about  
it to comment, and really haven't got the energy to contribute to  
working it out, I've had enough myself of hearing about it, I prefer  
real news rather than fights between 2-3 people and their network  
issues. my area of focus was more in providing you with the space to  
voice it as I would ANY inydmedia, at least till now. I don't think  
you win a battle by censorship either, and not hosting their request  
would have been that as well, I just don't know what is truth or not,  
as I really don't know the facts, nor have time to read thru them in  
the ongoing saga.

Really, it comes down to the fact you all can't work together ... so  
why are you all trying? I mean, that's not inherantly bad .. it's  
called diversity.

> You condone that wrong by
> supporting censorship of our site on the basis of the stories we run -
> namely exposing an injustice and striking.

no, I'm not condoning anything, I'm just not dealing with it anymore.  
I'm not taking sides in this, heck indymedia have lists that you folks  
were supposed to be using to work all this out, and you want me too in  
a day of time I didn't have anyway?

> You would interfere with our right to strike. All other rights have been
> taken away from us - by you people - so why not go all the way?

I didn't take away nothing. By all means strike in Indymedia, power to  
ya, but I'm not supporting those posts with their names in the title  
designed to hit google hard, the others maintaining the server don't  
want to either. We have said so publically, have not brought down or  
censored anything, and have put forward the two options as we see it.

that's like .. working together, and believe it or not, I was the only  
reason it did not happen earlier so lay off.

This is being done transparently, it's posted on public lists, we  
don't know any other way to do it, without being locked into HAVING to  
support your site, you making me maintain it is coercion.

> I still see no explanations - just an attempt to silence the DIMC dependent
> on factually-based articles you have failed to refute.

I don't need to refute them, I'm not in Indymedia. You work out your  
problems there, I'm busy doing stuff too. I have seen other people  
jump thjrough hoops to try and resolve this in your wider network, I'm  
stumped as to what other resolution will get this issue other than you  
look at how a federation of collectives work .. if you have nothing in  
common with them why want to be in it? I just don't get it on many  
levels, nor really want to know.

> Your 'conspiracy' putdowns, etc... and general evasion are typical of the
> State. Popularity more important than ethics? Not with me.

Huh? the State? popularity? You think I want to be here discussing  
this with you now? having to deal with this? I'm pretty sure I  
mentioned I didn't want to get involved with your dispute, without the  
support of all the folk helping with axxs.org it would not exist, your  
freedom stops where others starts, and the only barometer we have for  
that is the contributors to it. because you choose to fight others  
with the methodology you are using, we have stated that we do not want  
to support that methodology, and gave our options for it going forward.

> Address the facts and your ethics in supporting the ugly tactics used
> against an afilliated imc.
>
> Truth is its own defence.

Well tell yourselves all in Indymedia that, 'affiliated IMC' I am just  
speaking of what you post and say Mick, not your collective. instead  
your doing what your doing, and blaming people that are just not  
involved, making them not want to be involved, and to the point we are  
having to say take down shit like, coz you all just can't work out  
stuff amongst yourselves. I still don't understand how a collective of  
independant local media people can 'strike' against the rest of the  
network and not just hurt themselves Indymedia more than anyone else.  
I mean .. you are arguing with yourselves yes? about yourselves? and  
what yourselves should do here? isn't that what meetings and consensus  
and stuff are for? and if you can't work in a group, you go do your  
own thing in achieving your goal? I still don't get it.

Dave

there's heaps of places to get free hosting, I'm sure everyone will  
help with the move, there's plenty of groups, maybe others in  
Indymedia may be of help.


>
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> mick
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> Dave Fregon <dave at netaxxs.com.au> wrote:
>  On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 22:19 -0700, mick lambe PARIAH wrote:
> > http://dimc.axxs.org/?action=newswire&parentview=7445
> > > Why doesn't this strike-breaking threat by axxs - surprise me?
>
> sigh. here we go. another years worth of effort following this one up
> now Mick?
>
>
> > Sure we can host elsewhere - but you have acted to censor us - while
> > hosting the people who lied and caused this mess. Despite knowing that
> > to be insulting and unjust to our people. (AFILLIATED)
>
> Censoring is taking down something, hindering or changing the
> information, which we have not done. You can't force an independant
> collective to host and fund something that we do not condone. All we
> have done is come to a decision over the content we host, and put
> forward the options regarding it, if not, you can't or won't, go
> elsewhere for hosting.
>
> fair enough? can I get back to work yet?
>
>
> > Which makes the axxs threat of dehosting one of bias and political
> > intervention.
>
> what a joke Mick, we are all lizard people. It's not a threat, it's  
> a condition of you using resources that we spend
> time and money providing for people that work together, and you don't.
> Fine, just take it elsewhere. It was a decision made by the group of
> collectives involved in maintaining all the sites on axxs.org, MOST of
> the sites on the server are not Indymedia.
>
> I also have been supporting yourself since basically this shit started,
> I have not been 'one eyed', my belief in goving all a chance to use the
> resources, and it's your actions alone that have changed my opinion over
> not dealing with it, not others. The more I have seen you take a
> situation and twist it into some conspiracy the more I have turned
> inward sick of it, and sick of having to deal with it. your comments
> here have sealed exactly what I have come around to see is happening. I
> don't have to explain myself. I see the problem clearly. I don't care
> what you say regarding me or the decision that has been made by the
> group, it stands for all. You just happened to have to brought to
> fruition first. I just happen to be the poor bunny now in your firing
> line. heh. NEXT!!
>
> DIMC is quite happy to stay if posts of these nature are taken down. If
> posts of this nature appear on any axxs.org hosted site, the site will
> be asked to take it down or move on, just as you have.
>
> The simple fact is, axxs.org is no longer going to be a platform for
> attacks on individuals of this nature. You or anyone else. In this case,
> you just don't want to accept the collective decision of those providing
> the service with regard that decision, hence, find somewhere that will
> if you want to continue being an internet sniper.
>
> So I put it to you, why should we have to host DIMC regardless of any
> collective decision amongst the people running the server over material
> hosted on it? why should DIMC get special treatment? If it's the 'race
> card' that you are always pulling .. well I'm not racist, and your using
> that as your technique 'to win' IS.
>
> > Makes it unjust.
>
> pfft. means nothing now. I don't walk into your room, shit on your floor
> then tell you that you just have to live with the smell.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>    mick lambe - coordinator: PARIAH - BETTER A PARIAH - THAN A LIAR
> People Against Racism In Aboriginal Homelands - Northern Territory Australia
>
> Archived by the National Library of Australia for preservation
>  as a site of national significance and lasting cultural value
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>
> PARIAH Mobile: 0404772989
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>
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