[axxs-sysadmin] decision-making [was: Domain Hosting for Manukoreri.net]

[meela davis]

Hey all,

I'd recommend that IRC is a great tool for organising and brain storming
etc. It allows fast action!

Maybe a good approach is to use both IRC and a wiki and email. So talk on
IRC, on the phone, email, f2f, etc. Formalise suggestions into a simple,
practical "motion", post it on the wiki (and a notice to the list) and
people can sign the wiki to agree / disagree with it.

Have a time-frame for decision-making - like one week. If there are X
signatures in a week, we go ahead. If not, then back to discussion.

Cheers
Meela


On 11/26/06, hugh trevelyan <hughcat at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> hi all,
>
> On 26/11/06, boud  wrote:
> > hi axxs-admin,
> >
> > On Sat, 25 Nov 2006, hugh trevelyan wrote:
> >
> > > I'm working full time now, away from my monitor. So my concern is
> being
> > > left out of decisions that concern me. And IRC isn't even accessible
> in
> > > retrospect as an archive, as listmail is.
> >
> > It should be relatively easy to make a script for a bot which logs a
> > channel, and regularly cleans the log of ip's and posts it as a
> > file to an apache-visible directory as a plain text file. Probably
> > best that the directory protections are fairly conservative (NoExecCgi
> or
> > whatever) in case someone posts code into the channel.
> >
> > Here's my own irc-log cleaning script for irssi style logs:
> >
> > #!/bin/sh
> >
> > sed -e 's/\[[^]@]*@[^]]*\]/\[\.\.\.\]/g' $1 | \
> > sed -e 's/\(.\{60\}[^ ]*\) \([^ ]\)/\1\n\2/g'
> >
> > exit 0
> >
> > The idea is that it removes ip's and breaks up long lines.
> >
> > A cron job can then post the cleaned log every 5 minutes or 1 hour
> > or 1 day depending on what the purpose of the channel is and how
> > urgent it is for people to follow it.
> >
> > Some people did this for #radioappo with the cleaned output (not the
> > same cleaning script) posted to:
> >
> > http://www.iteration.org/radioappo.txt
> >
> >
> > If everybody is warned that the channel is automatically logged and
> > published on the web, then i don't see any strong argument against it.
> >
> > Of course, some people have difficulty accepting that a group of "us"
> > (whoever "us" are) organising something socially should have
> > everything we say posted publicly.
> >
> > On the other hand, that's what indymedia has *claimed* to be and that's
> > what the wikipedia culture generally claims to do. (i know that axxs
> > is not the same thing as indymedia(TM), but there are clearly many goals
> > in common. :)
> >
> >
> > Hmmmmmmmmm...........  Probably most people here know that many people
> > in indymedia are thinking of the "next phase" of indymedia, especially
> > at a technical level. This is IMHO largely because the general
> > software community (beyond indymedia(TM)), including people who are
> > not committed to free software and/or don't care about the digital
> > divide, have in some sense taken over indymedia - in the general sense
> > of indymedia - and given it the name "Web2.0". Part of the reason for
> > this is lowering technical barriers to participation, or at least,
> > lowering technical barriers to *partial* participation while leaving
> > deep, centralised control to secretive, corporate style leaders and
> > organisations like google.  And so a fundamental difficulty in indymedia
> > is that we are trying to have all levels of control, including the
> > "deepest" levels to be genuinely open to participation - which is
> difficult
> > given that someone with weak tech knowledge has difficulty
> participating.
> >
> > Anyway, the point is that if we cron-jobbed cleaned irc logs to the web,
> > then it would be possible to have the much more intense and rapid
> feedback
> > communication style of irc become as transparent as archived mailing
> lists.
> >
> > An irc channel would become more like a room where people can casually
> > come along, listen and possibly participate in a "direct" conversation
> > and de facto rough consensus decision-making, in a way that people
> outside
> > of the room are not totally left out of the picture.
> >
> > Other people willing to summarise can then e.g. condense these on wiki
> > pages.
> >
> > This could also set a precedent for what (IMHO) we should set as the
> > minimum acceptable standard of decision-making in ANY collective
> > organisation, whether it's the public service or a private company or
> > a school or a hospital. The only exceptions would be things that concern
> > particular individuals, which would be private in order to protect their
> > private lives.
> >
> > How does this relate to web2.0? IMHO people *are* interested in
> > participation not just at a shallow level, but also they want to know
> > who is "in control". While it's true that it's already technically
> possible
> > for anyone to join in indy irc and log the conversations, in practice
> > it's difficult for most "non-techies". (E.g. recently there was an
> > error in the link from the poland indy main page which points to a page
> > which in turn points to the
> lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-pl-*
> > pages. One of the experienced imc pl people complained that the mailing
> > list archives were "no longer available" - i.e. this person didn't
> > know or forgot how to find the URL of the mailing lists.)
> >
> > So lowering this tech barrier by croning irc logs might just possibly
> > be something encouraging participation, better communication etc.
>
> Interesting rave from Boud. But at a level of complexity that I could
> only fully engage with in a format of immediate interactivity, eg
> IRC if it was at a leisurely enough pace for my typing skill. Or better
> still in f2f conversation. But high energy or multi-threaded IRC chat
> always leaves me floundering, way behind.
>
> I can't say I'm really enthusiastic about trying to plough through
> IRC logs seeking some sense of participation-in-arrears. The lack
> of explicit threads makes it hard work too.
>
> Early Indymedia used internal indymedia pages: posts & comments
> hosted on cat, confusingly called global-indymedia. Sydney indy similarly
> had its own internal pages. All lost now I suppose, or about to be as
> kahlo
> goes under.
>
> Maybe the new wiki will do the trick.
>
> cheers,
> hugh
>
> > Once we get torun organised as an imc, i'll probably propose this
> > locally...  But it might be good globally as well, so i'll probably
> > cc a similar version of this email to imc-communication.
> >
> > cheers
> > boud
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > axxs-sysadmin mailing list
> > axxs-sysadmin at lists.indymedia.org
> > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/axxs-sysadmin
> >
>
>
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Power to the sisters and therefore to the class
http://dev.anarchafem.org
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