[IMC-Boston-Editorial] Brilliant essay on editing website from ireland indymedia

Pete Stidman pstidman at yahoo.com
Mon Aug 15 07:20:25 PDT 2005


Here's a brilliant little off hand essay written by
one of Irelands crew on the way they edit their site. 
 Some really good ideas that are doubtlessly working
well.   

Does anybody have a date for our next webitorial mtg?

-Pete


Indymedia Ireland's comments work very well in my
opinion.  This stems 
from us having a relatively detailled editorial policy

http://www.indymedia.ie/editorial.php and applying it
strictly - even 
ruthlessly.  In addition to the various anti
hate-speech policies, and 
the one forbidding meta-discussion on the newswire (a
golden rule of 
web 
moderation) the most useful (and heavily used) policy
that we have for 
keeping order in the comments is banning any personal
abuse summed up 
as 
"play the ball, not the man" (*note to self - address
gendering of 
phrase). 

Second most useful and used policy is that which
forbids 
unsubstantiated 
allegations.  In practice we apply this in proportion
to the 
seriousness 
of the allegation.  So, for example, we would require
a very heavy 
amount of evidence for a serious criminal allegation
against a named 
individual and lesser burdens of evidence for general
allegations of 
mispractice against institutions or public figures. 
This guideline 
takes care of all sorts of rubbish from serious
misinformation to 
standard "all them protestors are just criminals"
trolling.  It even 
serves to weed out most of the bonkers conspiralunacy
(although banning 
cross-posting is more important for that). 

Third most useful and used policy is that which
demands that comments 
are directly related to the article and add
information or put forward 
a 
coherent argument about it. This gets rid of general
cliched responses 
such as "you're all smelly hippies, get a job". 
Actually it's 
historical genesis was dealing with a particularly
annoying trotskyist 
troll who greeted every single posting by an anarchist
with "anarchists 
are middle class tossers..." rubbish and every labour
party posting 
with 
"the labour party is not a workers party....". 

However, having such a detailed and effective
editorial policy set 
depends on us having a very well defined
organisational structure, 
highly evolved decision making processes, the current
state of which is 
summarised here:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=70147  
Particularly important is that we have means of
resolving disagreements 
over non-core issues in a speedy fashion.

It's also important to the functioning of the comments
section that we 
apply the rules irrespective of the political point of
view of the 
poster. The paradoxical outcome of all this is that we
have by far the 
highest ratio of comments to stories in the network
_and_ we delete 
far, 
far more comments than almost anybody else (bar the
belgians probably).

Finally, the fact that our software (oscailt) provides
many automatic 
features to ensure transparency and accountability
means that we 
successfully maintain the trust of our readers despite
the inevitable 
and regular onslaughts of "CENSORSHIP FASCISTS!!!!"
campaigns that are 
waged against us by the far right and by
conspiranoids.  In fact we 
just 
endured a 4 pronged assault in the last few days (see:

https://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/private/imc-ireland/2005-August/date.html

- you need to join to view I'm afraid)

Some measures of our relative success:

* We get an awful lot of traffic for an Irish site: 
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71247 
(the number of 
visitors to our site in July was equal to about 5% of
the country's 
population). 

* Our comments section plays host to all of the most
important and 
influential public debates on the Irish left (most
recently: 
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71354)
and among various 
other groups, for example Irish historians: 
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=67769
(many of the 
commenteers are well known professional academic
historians). 

* The last lord mayor of the capital city is an almost
daily 
contributor 
(and we regularly have to hide his comments) - search
for "Dermot 
Lacey" 
on the site.

* Our traffic and anecdotal evidence shows that by far
our best segment 
of "market penetration" at the moment is among small
farmers in the 
West 
of Ireland who are currently in virtual rebellion
against exploitation 
by the multi-national shell (see
http://www.indymedia.ie/mayo ).  They 
have used indymedia ireland as their primary
communication mechanism in 
their extremely impressive and virtually unprecedented
mobilisation - 
the biggest thing to happen in the region since the
war of indpendence.  
In general in Ireland, as soon as people turn to
struggle, they turn to 
indymedia.

* We regularly get denounced in the mainstream media
and in particular 
by the minister for (in) justice (eg 
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64150 )

* "I'll put it up on indymedia" is a fairly well-known
threat in the 
council chambers and parliamentary corridors of
Ireland.

* The local PR industry includes news of our internal
debates and 
decisions in their bulletins to corporate clients: 
http://pkellypr.com/blog/2005/0616/indymediaie-to-expand-into-local-collectives-pr-practitioners-take-note/

* We have our very own lunatic stalker site designed
to post personal 
details of editors and damaging slanders about us on
the internet: 
http://indymediairelandwatch.blogspot.com

* Finally, and most significantly in my opinion, if
you were to mention 
the word indymedia in front of any given member of our
elite, you'd get 
very short odds that an instinctive scowl would cross
their face.  They 
don't like us one little bit.  Better still, we are
equally disliked by 
the leaders of the authoritarians of the left as by
those of the right: 
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65858
while being 
immensely popular amongst rank and file movements of
all sorts.

Of course, our model is not necessarily going to be
transposable to 
other parts of the world.  We enjoy several major
advantages over 
others, including a manageable 'market' size and a
relatively parochial 
political system (when members of the cabinet
bad-mouth us at dinner 
parties, we sometimes hear about it the next day) and
a reasonable 
spread of political backgrounds among the collective
which means that 
we 
can verify stuff quickly and reliably.  Politically we
benefit from a 
landscape that had a relatively tiny authoritarian
left to serve as a 
brake to the wave of global libertarian consciousness
which indymedia 
sprang from and thus very few established alternatives
in competition 
with us.  We also have a relatively well organised,
ambitious and 
active 
anarchist movement and a general culture where writing
and 
argumentation 
are relatively popular mass passtimes.  Our economy is
also unusually 
dominated by technical industry and we thus have a
good number of 
leftists with technical expertise.

I apologise if this mail might reek somewhat of crass
boasting.  
However, I do think that, in relation to comments and
our website's 
impact in general we are well worth having a look at
as a model and I 
am 
very proud of what we have acheived.  In other areas
we are far less 
successful and I am much more critical of some of our
other work.  For 
example, we have developed largely in isolation from
the international 
network.  It is only in the last few months that we
have started to 
have 
some meaningful engagement and participation in the
global network and 
lists and that is only because I've been able to
wangle my way into a 
technical research project which allows me to spend a
fair bit of my 
time researching the network and its operations and
reporting my 
findings back to the collective. In particular I am
somewhat 
embarrassed 
that we have never provided much in the way of
solidarity to the 
movement in the global south when we don't have any
problem raising 
funds when we try. 

I am attempting to address that isolation as much as
possible and we 
have a proposal on the table to engage in a serious
fundraising 
campaign 
for the movement in the global south.  Anyway, my
investigations into 
the network have frequently surprised me as to how
different we are to 
many other indymedias and also as to how our model is
one that might be 
well worth looking at for other collectives. 
Researching our network 
keeps making me ever more of an advocate (or
evangelist ;-)) for 
imc.ie.  There are many things that have impressed me
about the 
international network on the other hand and hopefully
I can carry some 
of them back to our collective, but there are also
lessons that others 
in the network can take from us.  The most important
one is, in my 
opinion, that formality, effective decision making
processes and strict 
application of rules are not inconsistent with free
democratic media, 
instead they are vital for it.

Hey folks,

Why so glum chums?  Here's a really great explanation
of how indymedia.ie does their editing and how well
they are doing.  Maybe we can take a few hints?

-Pete
Indymedia Ireland's comments work very well in my
opinion.  This stems 
from us having a relatively detailled editorial policy

http://www.indymedia.ie/editorial.php and applying it
strictly - even 
ruthlessly.  In addition to the various anti
hate-speech policies, and 
the one forbidding meta-discussion on the newswire (a
golden rule of 
web 
moderation) the most useful (and heavily used) policy
that we have for 
keeping order in the comments is banning any personal
abuse summed up 
as 
"play the ball, not the man" (*note to self - address
gendering of 
phrase). 

Second most useful and used policy is that which
forbids 
unsubstantiated 
allegations.  In practice we apply this in proportion
to the 
seriousness 
of the allegation.  So, for example, we would require
a very heavy 
amount of evidence for a serious criminal allegation
against a named 
individual and lesser burdens of evidence for general
allegations of 
mispractice against institutions or public figures. 
This guideline 
takes care of all sorts of rubbish from serious
misinformation to 
standard "all them protestors are just criminals"
trolling.  It even 
serves to weed out most of the bonkers conspiralunacy
(although banning 
cross-posting is more important for that). 

Third most useful and used policy is that which
demands that comments 
are directly related to the article and add
information or put forward 
a 
coherent argument about it. This gets rid of general
cliched responses 
such as "you're all smelly hippies, get a job". 
Actually it's 
historical genesis was dealing with a particularly
annoying trotskyist 
troll who greeted every single posting by an anarchist
with "anarchists 
are middle class tossers..." rubbish and every labour
party posting 
with 
"the labour party is not a workers party....". 

However, having such a detailed and effective
editorial policy set 
depends on us having a very well defined
organisational structure, 
highly evolved decision making processes, the current
state of which is 
summarised here:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=70147  
Particularly important is that we have means of
resolving disagreements 
over non-core issues in a speedy fashion.

It's also important to the functioning of the comments
section that we 
apply the rules irrespective of the political point of
view of the 
poster. The paradoxical outcome of all this is that we
have by far the 
highest ratio of comments to stories in the network
_and_ we delete 
far, 
far more comments than almost anybody else (bar the
belgians probably).

Finally, the fact that our software (oscailt) provides
many automatic 
features to ensure transparency and accountability
means that we 
successfully maintain the trust of our readers despite
the inevitable 
and regular onslaughts of "CENSORSHIP FASCISTS!!!!"
campaigns that are 
waged against us by the far right and by
conspiranoids.  In fact we 
just 
endured a 4 pronged assault in the last few days (see:

https://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/private/imc-ireland/2005-August/date.html

- you need to join to view I'm afraid)

Some measures of our relative success:

* We get an awful lot of traffic for an Irish site: 
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71247 
(the number of 
visitors to our site in July was equal to about 5% of
the country's 
population). 

* Our comments section plays host to all of the most
important and 
influential public debates on the Irish left (most
recently: 
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=71354)
and among various 
other groups, for example Irish historians: 
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=67769
(many of the 
commenteers are well known professional academic
historians). 

* The last lord mayor of the capital city is an almost
daily 
contributor 
(and we regularly have to hide his comments) - search
for "Dermot 
Lacey" 
on the site.

* Our traffic and anecdotal evidence shows that by far
our best segment 
of "market penetration" at the moment is among small
farmers in the 
West 
of Ireland who are currently in virtual rebellion
against exploitation 
by the multi-national shell (see
http://www.indymedia.ie/mayo ).  They 
have used indymedia ireland as their primary
communication mechanism in 
their extremely impressive and virtually unprecedented
mobilisation - 
the biggest thing to happen in the region since the
war of indpendence.  
In general in Ireland, as soon as people turn to
struggle, they turn to 
indymedia.

* We regularly get denounced in the mainstream media
and in particular 
by the minister for (in) justice (eg 
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64150 )

* "I'll put it up on indymedia" is a fairly well-known
threat in the 
council chambers and parliamentary corridors of
Ireland.

* The local PR industry includes news of our internal
debates and 
decisions in their bulletins to corporate clients: 
http://pkellypr.com/blog/2005/0616/indymediaie-to-expand-into-local-collectives-pr-practitioners-take-note/

* We have our very own lunatic stalker site designed
to post personal 
details of editors and damaging slanders about us on
the internet: 
http://indymediairelandwatch.blogspot.com

* Finally, and most significantly in my opinion, if
you were to mention 
the word indymedia in front of any given member of our
elite, you'd get 
very short odds that an instinctive scowl would cross
their face.  They 
don't like us one little bit.  Better still, we are
equally disliked by 
the leaders of the authoritarians of the left as by
those of the right: 
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65858
while being 
immensely popular amongst rank and file movements of
all sorts.

Of course, our model is not necessarily going to be
transposable to 
other parts of the world.  We enjoy several major
advantages over 
others, including a manageable 'market' size and a
relatively parochial 
political system (when members of the cabinet
bad-mouth us at dinner 
parties, we sometimes hear about it the next day) and
a reasonable 
spread of political backgrounds among the collective
which means that 
we 
can verify stuff quickly and reliably.  Politically we
benefit from a 
landscape that had a relatively tiny authoritarian
left to serve as a 
brake to the wave of global libertarian consciousness
which indymedia 
sprang from and thus very few established alternatives
in competition 
with us.  We also have a relatively well organised,
ambitious and 
active 
anarchist movement and a general culture where writing
and 
argumentation 
are relatively popular mass passtimes.  Our economy is
also unusually 
dominated by technical industry and we thus have a
good number of 
leftists with technical expertise.

I apologise if this mail might reek somewhat of crass
boasting.  
However, I do think that, in relation to comments and
our website's 
impact in general we are well worth having a look at
as a model and I 
am 
very proud of what we have acheived.  In other areas
we are far less 
successful and I am much more critical of some of our
other work.  For 
example, we have developed largely in isolation from
the international 
network.  It is only in the last few months that we
have started to 
have 
some meaningful engagement and participation in the
global network and 
lists and that is only because I've been able to
wangle my way into a 
technical research project which allows me to spend a
fair bit of my 
time researching the network and its operations and
reporting my 
findings back to the collective. In particular I am
somewhat 
embarrassed 
that we have never provided much in the way of
solidarity to the 
movement in the global south when we don't have any
problem raising 
funds when we try. 

I am attempting to address that isolation as much as
possible and we 
have a proposal on the table to engage in a serious
fundraising 
campaign 
for the movement in the global south.  Anyway, my
investigations into 
the network have frequently surprised me as to how
different we are to 
many other indymedias and also as to how our model is
one that might be 
well worth looking at for other collectives. 
Researching our network 
keeps making me ever more of an advocate (or
evangelist ;-)) for 
imc.ie.  There are many things that have impressed me
about the 
international network on the other hand and hopefully
I can carry some 
of them back to our collective, but there are also
lessons that others 
in the network can take from us.  The most important
one is, in my 
opinion, that formality, effective decision making
processes and strict 
application of rules are not inconsistent with free
democratic media, 
instead they are vital for it.

We are also preparing a major expansion into several
new areas of media 
with the completion of our new software which is an
attempt to endow us 
with the tools to cope with the continual expansion in
numbers of 
people 
using the site and contributing to it. 

Finally, considering the increasing impact that we are
having in 
Ireland, I don't think it will be too long before
there is some attempt 
to suppress us.  So don't be too surprised if you soon
read an appeal 
for help from myself or another of our volunteers.

Chekov
1 of indymedia.ie (and an evangelical one at that)


		
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