[Imc-alternatives] python frameworks + wsgi beat cakephp + ice

[Josef Davies-Coates]

Hi Ryan, Jay, all

SUMMARY: python frameworks + wsgi beat cakephp + ice. no contest.
FILM: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-872784530622495809
WSGI: http://www.wsgi.org/wsgi

More below...

On 21/11/2007, ryan <ryan at linefeed.org> wrote:
>
> >    There are good reasons why Google, YouTube, Amazon etc pay massive
> >    amounts of cash to employ all the top python coders.
> >    For some industry quotes and success stories see:
> >    http://www.python.org/about/quotes/
> >    http://www.python.org/about/success/
>
> I would urge you to check out the development page set up for the
> CakePHP project - http://dev.bunke.indymedia.org/



Thanks, I took a good look :)


Specifically, what is drafted there is to use CakePHP as the front-end
> language and use ICE as a way to do all kinds of things (probably in
> Python) like interact with the database, provide an object store,
> cross-server caching to memory, etc.



Interesting.

Considering you want to "do all kinds of things (probably in Python)", why
CakePHP and not Python frameworks like TurboGears, or Pylons?

Interestingly (to me at least), TurboGears 2 seeks to be to Pylons what
Ubuntu is to Debian:
http://groups.google.com/group/turbogears/browse_thread/thread/d1d2e416023e7033
http://www.blueskyonmars.com/2007/06/27/turbogears-2-a-reinvention-and-back-to-its-roots/


I've seen the component-based architecture articles popping up here
> and there recently. I'm not exactly sure how it differs



This seems a good article on it:
http://www.muthukadan.net/docs/zca.html


-- if Zope
> could be used to build an appropriate drop-in replacement for the
> middleware that ICE talks to (I doubt it) but either way this is the
> direction our proposal is heading. Personally, my worry from a really
> uneducated viewpoint is that Zope's overhead makes it inappropriate
> for Indymedia's requirements which I think include a light-weight
> middleware that allows us to truly distribute our servers and website
> hosting.



Based on extensive research and over-exposure to perfectionist-distributed
-systems-dreamers I think you are very much heading in the right direction
:)

However, the Python community have been going in the same direction for ages
and are way ahead from what I can make out.

If you want light-weight reusable middleware that allows you to truly
distribute your servers and website hosting then the Python Web Server
Gateway Interface (WSGI) is where its at.

I urge you to watch this film:

ReUsable Web Components with Python and Future Python Web Development
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-872784530622495809

ZeroC.com (makers of ICE) seems to be unreachable which doesn't bode well
and means I can't really read up too much on ICE, but from what I've found
using google cache and wikipedia I doubt it can talk to as much as WSGI can:

http://www.wsgi.org/wsgi/Frameworks
http://www.wsgi.org/wsgi/Servers
http://www.wsgi.org/wsgi/Applications
http://www.wsgi.org/wsgi/Middleware_and_Utilities

So, I know I'm throwing a potentially large spanner in the works here, but
while I'd agree with you that CakePHP + ICE is the most innovative and
forward thinking path on the potential CMS roadmap (because its uses a MVC
rapid development framework and links in clever ways to lots of other
stuff)....it seems clear that Python frameworks (z3, tg2, etc.) + WSGI have
the upper hand if a distributed cutting edge system with maximum code reuse
is what is desired.

Am I missing something?

I can hear people saying "but PHP is so popular and so many cheap hosting
companies support it as standard"...

Fox News is popular. WalMart is cheap. Are these really the qualities that
matter?

Here's to Indymedia, Farmers Markets, and Python. ;)

Smiles,

Josef.


-- 
Josef Davies-Coates
07974 88 88 95
http://uniteddiversity.com
Together We Have Everything
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