[Imc-alternatives] python frameworks + wsgi beat cakephp + ice

[ryan]

Em Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 08:33:06AM +0000, Josef Davies-Coates escreveu:
>    Considering you want to "do all kinds of things (probably in Python)",
>    why CakePHP and not Python frameworks like TurboGears, or Pylons?

This probably isn't the place to have this discussions so I've cc'ed
the cms list. To answer the question "why PHP, and not Python?" -- a
question I hear everytime I sit down to architect a new project, the
answers I have are:
1- PHP is built for web development. Everything about it is for web
development. And it has been that way for over 10 years now. 
2- PHP has lower barriers to access. It's easier for new programmers
to learn. 
3- PHP has a larger labor pool. It's easier to *find* new programmers
for your project.
4- When used properly, PHP is the most sophisticated front-end
available. Python can achieve this with a confusing mix of various
add-ons and template systems (a new one seems to be in vogue every few
months, Genshi is right now). 

I've read a bit about the personnel changes with TurboGears and TG2
sounds like it could be cool, when it comes out. But I need something
today :)


>    If you want light-weight reusable middleware that allows you to truly
>    distribute your servers and website hosting then the Python Web Server
>    Gateway Interface (WSGI) is where its at.

I will check this out... I've been hoping there exists a nice, free
Python gateway thing that will make my dreams come true. Maybe this is
it.

>    of other stuff)....it seems clear that Python frameworks (z3, tg2,
>    etc.) + WSGI have the upper hand if a distributed cutting edge system
>    with maximum code reuse is what is desired.
>    Am I missing something?

Yeah, I mean, we dont want to be cutting edge for the sake of cutting
edge. We want a distributed international system that also
distributes the labor of running the actual servers and is also
impervious to the loss of any given node in the network. To that
extent, pragmatism is what led me down to the road to the system I'm
proposing. AND we want it fast, and we want it to be as accessible to
as many people as possible.

>    I can hear people saying "but PHP is so popular and so many cheap
>    hosting companies support it as standard"...
>    Fox News is popular. WalMart is cheap. Are these really the qualities
>    that matter?

These qualities are indicative of what *is* important -- all the
reasons I listed out above (accessibility, lots of people are already
php programmers, etc). PHP is the People's Language and it'll be hard
to convince me that on the web server tier, there is something that
makes more sense to use. 

That said, Josef, I invite you over to imc-cms and join in -- our
architecture discussion is FAR from over and, in some ways, hasn't
even begun :) Because we haven't decided on a CMS route yet.
-ryan