[Imc-alternatives] DESIGN: log of April 27 design/development IRC meeting

[Jay]

Session Start: Sun Apr 27 20:57:10 2008
Session Ident: #alternatives
Session Close: Sun Apr 27 20:57:10 2008

Session Start: Sun Apr 27 20:57:10 2008
Session Ident: #alternatives
03[20:57] * Now talking in #alternatives
[20:58] <josh> hey folks
01[20:58] <Jay> Hi Josh!
01[21:03] <Jay> Josh, did Steve from the IMC e-mail you?  I got a 
message from him supporting our idea to host the test site on vox.
[21:04] <josh> Jay -- I don't think I got an email from Steve
03[21:05] * nicklally (nicklally at 45386a.2da930.6bab5f.625a2b) has 
joined #alternatives
[21:05] <@michaelv> hey
[21:05] <nicklally> Hello, I'm here
01[21:05] <Jay> Josh, I'll forward it to you.
[21:06] <josh> hey there!
[21:06] <josh> should we get started?
01[21:06] <Jay> Yeah, the gang's all here.
01[21:07] <Jay> I'm signing on to crabgrass right now.
[21:08] <@michaelv> ill be here in a sec
[21:08] <@michaelv> have some wireless issues with hardy heron
[21:09] <nicklally> ok, i'm on crabgrass and ready whenever
01[21:10] <Jay> Just looking at the sitemap brainstorm page: 
https://we.riseup.net/michaelv/step-one-sitemap+7378.  I hadn't seen 
Aaron's comments below.
01[21:10] <Jay> and Michael's responses...
01[21:10] <Jay> Aaron K is suggesting that we start simple and build 
up.  That makes a lot of sense to me.
[21:10] <nicklally> Yeah, it does. I think designing with room for 
expansion is going to be key.
[21:11] <nicklally> But, I think we can also make designs of the 
"ideal" indymedia alternatives site, even if we know it's not what's 
going to be implemented at first.
01[21:13] <Jay> I like the idea of our having a great big vision and 
plan as well as a reasonable step-by-stpep view of 
implementation.  That's something we've talked about before and it 
still makes total sense.
01[21:14] <Jay> What we should try to do tonight, I guess, is to 
figure out how we're going to pin down the basic skeleton of a sitemap.
[21:14] <josh> I generally agree -- I think it's good to know where 
we're going, although I although think that it's key to figure out 
the simplest initial site that we can launch with
[21:14] <nicklally> Yeah, I agree. I think aaron also brings up a 
good point of unused features being a turn off to people who come to the site.
[21:14] <josh> and then figure out incremental steps from there
01[21:14] <Jay> Hooray for incremental steps!
[21:14] <josh> long lists of features & a bold plan increase the risk 
of no actual implementation
[21:15] <josh> but a bold plan and clear visioning in parallel with a 
site that's actually being used is a recipe for success, I think
[21:16] <josh> I think the question of: what are the three (or 
however many) key features of the site
02[21:16] * @michaelv (michaelv at 53d63e.d6bbcf.e579fc.c3b343) Quit 
(Connection closed)
[21:16] <josh> and build an initial sitemap around that, etc.  could 
be really useful
[21:16] <nicklally> One way we could think about the implementation 
plan is to think of features that build on existing features that 
people use. For instance, categories and the knowledge base is an 
easy step that will integrate well.
01[21:18] <Jay> We also have the advantage of already familiar with 
the open publishing/news feature part of indymedia...
01[21:19] <Jay> Nick, I don't know if you've been checking the 
imc-alternatives list.  Are you up on the recent developments with 
Josh and the PhillyIMC drupal site?
[21:19] <nicklally> Somewhat. I am on the list
[21:19] <nicklally> I saw the test page.
03[21:21] * michaelv (michaelv at 53d63e.d6bbcf.e579fc.c3b343) has 
joined #alternatives
[21:21] <josh> With design help, and under that code base, we start 
with basic indymedia features, including blogs/rss feed integration, 
headlines, and an event calendar
01[21:21] <Jay> Great!  Basically, we're going back to plan A before 
we took a detour with all that imc-cms group stuff, which means we're 
going to take the PhillyIMC's drupal code, which is already tried and 
true as far as running a traditional IMC site, and build upon 
that.  So, we're hitting the ground running.
[21:22] <nicklally> Ok, that sounds good
[21:22] <josh> From an implementation perspective, I'm excited for 
the sitemap to answer the question: how will the site be organized 
(which we should be able to implement reasonably easily) and what are 
the key features that are necessary for an initial launch
[21:23] <josh> as a side note, I'd love it if there was someone who 
was willing to throw together an initial banner for the site
[21:23] <josh> even if it is just very placeholder-y
[21:23] <nicklally> i would be into that
[21:24] <michaelv> strype replied to that earlier today
[21:24] <michaelv> I'm back, wireless working again (no more wired, 
until the wireless poops again
[21:25] <nicklally> how is the site going to exist initially? is it 
going to run along side the current indymedia site? is it going to be 
a local thing or national or global?
[21:25] <josh> jay had a good suggestion which was to swap in some 
initial design elements (even if they are very temporary) just so we 
have something to look at that is clearly an alternatives development stage
[21:25] <michaelv> no, to the phase of dev for the site, from basic 
to more advance options that might need to be coded
[21:26] <michaelv> I'm jumping, I will need to catch up
[21:26] <michaelv> logged into cg too
[21:26] <nicklally> josh--do you mean adding design elements before 
we go through the wireframe-->inital sketches process?
[21:28] <josh> yeah ... not a lot of design elements, just enough to 
swap out the existing design elements for something neutral
[21:28] <michaelv> I think what stryp was getting at earlier on the 
list was dev in phases, beginning with what is already coded, and 
moving on to what  needs to be configured and then coded
01[21:28] <Jay> I'd say just something really basic.  that way 
"alternatives.joshmarcus.com" can feel like our test project rather 
than a mushed up Phillyimc site.
[21:28] <nicklally> makes sense
[21:29] <josh> and then we can get up to speed with the development 
side of things in parallel with the sitemap and sketch process
[21:29] <michaelv> definitely would be good to get something out 
there, speaking for lpimc too, and add new upgrades from time to time 
once the test site is upgraded without bugs, etc
[21:29] <josh> but i'll just report that i think we are making some 
progress and let y'all plan the sitemap process
[21:29] <nicklally> do we want to stick with the current layout for now, then?
[21:30] <josh> i think that's fine, unless someone is inspired to 
want to move stuff around earlier
01[21:30] <Jay> I agree with josh.  For the sake of simplicity, 
let's start playing with the site the way the PhillyIMC is laid 
out.  I'm sure we all have ideas about moving things around but that 
may be a step or two along the line.
[21:31] <nicklally> ok, sounds good
01[21:31] <Jay> Back to Nick's question about local/global...
[21:31] <michaelv> I agree with josh as well, sounds like a smart way
[21:32] <michaelv> also, considering lpimc web-dev needs, would help 
us get one up sooner too.
01[21:34] <Jay> We've organized with a global perspectie so far, and 
i think we should keep that.  The scope shouldn't affect the design 
though, I don't think.
[21:34] <michaelv> imc-alt is more project oriented, from what I get, 
which would seem more global
[21:35] <nicklally> Ok, cool. You're probably right that it won't 
affect design too much, so it's probably a bit off-topic.
01[21:35] <Jay> :)
01[21:36] <Jay> So, back on topic...we may as well look at the 
sitemap brainstorm page on 
crabgrass.  https://we.riseup.net/michaelv/step-one-sitemap+7378.
[21:37] <nicklally> So what's our next step? I'll be honest: I feel a 
little hands-off when it comes to the sitemap. I feel more interested 
in designing what people come up with for the sitemap.
01[21:38] <Jay> I understand.  Michael already chimed in with his 
thoughts about features to add to the basic map.  Josh, what are your 
thoughts?  What do we need to add to the basic map I laid out to have 
it make sense?  (I never put a sitemap together before, as I'm sure 
you can tell.)
01[21:40] <Jay> Basically, I'm picturing four main elements: 1) 
traditional indymedia news (newswire, features, blogwire, etc.), 2) 
knowledge base, 3) categories with information about alternatives 
topics, 4) networking.
01[21:41] <Jay> These things would all be ideally integrated with 
each other throughout the site, but we could start by setting them up 
independently.
[21:42] <nicklally> Yeah, I like breaking it up into those 4 big 
categories. One thing I like about this whole "web 2.0" business is 
simplifying menus. Those 4 choices could be the main menu.
[21:42] <nicklally> And it would really leave room for expansion.
[21:43] <josh> my general sense is that 1 and 3 are pretty 
straightforward to implement under the drupal codebase, and i 
understand roughly what they might look like from an indymedia perspective
[21:43] <michaelv> If it helps I spent a great deal of time 
researching drupal modules for lpimc, have them loggged at 
lpimc-dev.wikispaces.com
[21:43] <josh> networking sounds like where we plug in crabgrass
[21:43] <josh> can we talk for a second about what are the 
requirements (core, necessary) for the knowledge base?
[21:44] <josh> like ... is the knowledge base a wiki, with some 
thoughtful editing by editors?
01[21:45] <Jay> That's pretty much my sense of it.
[21:45] <josh> soo
[21:45] <josh> that's great, from a development perspective
[21:45] <michaelv> drupal haas wiki tools I believe, or would we do a 
separate backend for the wiki/knowledgbase?
[21:45] <josh> for example, i like 'mediawiki' which is what wikpedia 
uses.  it takes 5 minutes to install
[21:46] <josh> michaelv -- we could go either way
[21:46] <michaelv> ok
[21:46] <josh> but what i think is great is that i think we can get 
the core features the project needs "out of the box" if we are wiling 
to plug different pieces together
[21:47] <nicklally> i've done mediawiki templates and they're pretty 
simple to design
[21:47] <josh> so a more detailed sitemap might be useful -- not 
necessarily more *features* but ... what pages do we imagine the site 
having?  even categories could be useful
01[21:48] <Jay> Are you talking about a list of categories?  We 
could start with the ones used in the alternatives feature from 
waaaay back.  i can dig them up somewhere.
[21:48] <josh> i personally think the networking features should be 
put a bit on the backburner because crabgrass is still in development 
and will be for a while, except for what we can find in drupal 
modules; e.g. a live chat or some such
[21:49] <josh> yeah ... or what are the top level navigation 
elements, etc. and pieces ... i am wondering how we get enough to 
nick so he can design :)
01[21:50] <Jay> Josh and all: here is the old alternatives feature: 
http://poetpiet.tripod.com/2002/phillyimc-alternatives.htm.  We can 
use those categories for the test.
[21:50] <nicklally> well, how do people feel about the stripped-down 
menu featuring the four categories jay mentioned?
06[21:50] * josh feels great about that!
01[21:50] <Jay> I feel great about that, but I don't know how to 
make text in IRC come out purple!
[21:50] <nicklally> ha!
01[21:51] <Jay> As for the networking features that are most 
important to the alternatives site....
[21:52] <michaelv> lol
01[21:52] <Jay> One thing I think is essential, which falls more or 
less under the rubric of networking, is to give people and 
organizations that use Alternatives the chance to set up their own 
profile pages...
01[21:52] <Jay> I haven't done that in crabgrass yet so I don't know 
if that's easy to do....
[21:53] <nicklally> I wonder if we could implement parts of 
campusactivism.org...
[21:53] <josh> soo should there be a page that lists all of the 
groups that are participating, which link to the individual pages?
01[21:53] <Jay> but I think one major strength of our site will be 
that people will be able to see other people who do alternatives 
work.  I have no idea if that's hard or easy to implement.
[21:53] <josh> well, let's assume that to start someone is willing to 
actually maintain that page
[21:53] <michaelv> we could use crabgrass, if we could implement 
upgrades without much problem
[21:54] <michaelv> this summer cg will be moving along real quick 
once they are all out of school
[21:54] <josh> because if we have a CMS we can give someone with an 
account the right to edit their profile page
[21:54] <nicklally> Campusactivism.org has a login system with 
personal/group profiles and all that. If aaron wanted to work on 
this, it would probably be really easy to add.
[21:55] <josh> i recommend against doing anything that requires 
programming until we have an initial sit eup
[21:55] <josh> err, site up
[21:55] <josh> with use
[21:55] <michaelv> yeah
[21:55] <nicklally> ok, so what do we have that doesn't require 
programming right now?
[21:56] <josh> but that said, if having profile pages of 
participating groups is important to us we can put up pages that 
profile the groups that they can edit
[21:56] <nicklally> or do you mean we should focus on design?
01[21:56] <Jay> I'm guessing the current phillyimc site has a login 
system, though maybe not with the various levels of logins we'll 
eventually want.
[21:56] <michaelv> the wiki can serve that at first
[21:56] <josh> I'm just saying that we have a CMS, so we can manually 
build some pages instead of having an automated system for it
[21:56] <josh> since there won't be 100 groups at first
[21:56] <michaelv> like static resource or wiki pages?
[21:57] <josh> i was thinking neither: drupal is a CMS that will 
provide specific access levels to specific pages
[21:57] <josh> so any one with an account could get a page to put 
info about their group
02[21:57] * nicklally (nicklally at 45386a.2da930.6bab5f.625a2b) Quit 
(EOF from client)
[21:57] <michaelv> can they be indexed to a menu tab or other page 
for easy reference, or do we need to create that page manually?
03[21:57] * nicklally (nicklally at 45386a.2da930.6bab5f.625a2b) has 
joined #alternatives
[21:58] <josh> realistically for it to be useful someone who was part 
of the project would need to help it through
[21:58] <josh> they can be indexed to a menu tab for easy reference, definitely
[21:58] <josh> i guess what i am trying to say is ...
[21:58] <josh> i think the social side of much of this is harder than 
the technical side
[21:59] <michaelv> I think that makes sense, and also
[21:59] <michaelv> we are not directing them to a different social 
organizing tool that they will need to leave once we put cg in place
[21:59] <josh> and we don't necessarily need a fully automated system 
for everything, as someone has to be invested in making sure there is 
valuable information in each section until things really take off
[21:59] <michaelv> this way we could put an alert on the group pages 
alerting them to the implementation of cg, etc
[21:59] <josh> definitely
[22:00] <nicklally> Ok, that all makes sense
[22:00] <josh> but also crabgrass may never mature, so while we are 
excited and invested we shouldn't 100% depend on that ( i think )
[22:00] <josh> so really all i am saying is that if we are excited 
about profiles and participating groups we should put that in the site map
[22:00] <josh> and in the navigation
[22:01] <michaelv> let's give it to the end of summer, see how much 
it comes along
[22:01] <josh> ooh i have a question
[22:01] <josh> this is a tricky one
01[22:01] <Jay> I agree with Josh.  I think profiles are key. (I 
don't think I've ever seen an indymedia site with profiles, so that 
would set it apart right there.)
01[22:01] <Jay> okay, tricky question.
[22:02] <michaelv> drupal has a social networking tool, not to muddle 
things up or anything
[22:02] <josh> can we set some of timeline / milestones / goal?
[22:02] <josh> yeah totally
[22:02] <josh> also drupal has profiles
[22:02] <nicklally> yeah, i like timelines/goals
01[22:03] <Jay> Josh and Michael: to be most pragmatic, I think the 
more we can set up through drupal the better.
[22:03] <michaelv> ok, that will make things even easier--josh, did 
you look at the archive of drupal/indymedia etc modules I collected?
[22:03] <josh> michael -- can you give me page link?  i found your 
wiki but not the drupal module list
01[22:03] <Jay> Then if Cragrass doesn't take off, we will still 
have something going.
[22:03] <josh> i agree with that
[22:03] <josh> here is my secret agenda
[22:04] <josh> i have energy to work on this now, but i am concerned 
that it will wane if it goes too long without an initial launch
[22:04] <michaelv> http://lpimc-dev.wikispaces.com/drupal
[22:05] <josh> so i think it would be great to have a goal to get 
together v1 in a relatively short period of time ... even if it not a public v1
[22:05] <josh> like maybe the sitemap and design sketches could 
happen in X weeks and then we could try and put together as much as 
we can X weeks after that
[22:05] <michaelv> yes, but I think it will take off, radical designs 
is having work done that is paid for, and they are sharing info, plus 
there is a united nations project going using crabgrass
[22:06] <michaelv> and the basic architecture is based on something 
in rubyonrails that is always being upgraded too
[22:06] <josh> michael, i totally agree and i am not in any way 
trying to diminsh the coolness of crabgrass
[22:06] <michaelv> i know, just wanted to share
[22:06] <nicklally> josh--i like that idea. i think everything will 
make a lot more sense once we get designs out there and people can 
comment on them and we can refine our vision.
[22:06] <nicklally> so yes, timelines are great. i need a push!
01[22:06] <Jay> Josh, I completely agree with the rapid 
implementation idea -- not a public version, but functional.  We have 
to go where the energy is, and if you have it now, now is it.
[22:07] <josh> hey nick -- when can you have designs by, do you think?
[22:07] <josh> pick your poison
[22:07] <nicklally> well, i think we should do some  wireframes first
[22:07] <nicklally> i know jay wanted to be in on that process and maybe others
[22:07] <josh> yeah totally
[22:07] <josh> really i am just asking you to make up some milestones 
for yourself :)
[22:08] <nicklally> then i can come up with some sketches in a couple 
weeks maybe? after we discuss the wireframes together
[22:08] <michaelv> www.freedesignstudio.org
[22:08] <josh> do you think wireframes are a 2 week process?  3 week process?
[22:09] <nicklally> i think if people have time, they don't take too 
long. we could even aim for next week, depending on people's schedules
[22:09] <nicklally> or maybe 2 weeks would make sense
[22:09] <nicklally> jay? what's your time like?
01[22:09] <Jay> Nick, I've never made wireframes before and would be 
happy to leave that to anyone else.  I do and will have thoughts on 
layout of the pages and whatnot.  So maybe what we said before about 
going with the PhillyIMC site layout at first makes less sense if 
we're thinking about a very simple test site, yet fairly 
representational of what the ultimate site will look like.
[22:09] <michaelv> I will draw some and scan them in too
[22:10] <nicklally> Oh, are we talking about banners and graphics or 
an overall site layout sketch? I thought the latter.
01[22:10] <Jay> My time frame...hmm.  I'm actually fairly flexible 
the next few weeks.  I lave a lot of owrk to do but my timing is variable.
[22:11] <nicklally> And Jay, I think you participating in wireframes 
would be a valuable task, since I can tell you've been thinking a lot 
about this stuff.
01[22:11] <Jay> So yeah, if there's forward motion I could 
absolutely put in the time.
[22:11] <josh> whoo!
01[22:11] <Jay> Nick: Absoutely.  I'd love to be part of the 
wireframe process.
[22:11] <nicklally> Great!
[22:12] <josh> so how about wireframes over this next week?
[22:12] <michaelv> site design and graphatical designs
[22:12] <nicklally> That works for me.
[22:12] <josh> ok
[22:12] <michaelv> www.freedesignstudio.org sent a postcard to the 
lpimc po box the other day...they help grassroots creative projects for free
[22:12] <nicklally> Then site sketches maybe two weeks after that. 
And I can work on some initial placeholder graphics in the meantime
[22:13] <josh> and then we discuss the sketches
[22:13] <josh> and then we move into implementation, both of the 
design elements and the site
01[22:13] <Jay> I could do that.  My default is that I'm on my own 
time every night after the kids go to sleep, which is usually by 
8:30.  Sometimes I have meetings and things to do, but not every 
night.  So we could meet on IRC or talk on the phone or whatever.
[22:14] <nicklally> Should we stick with the Sunday meetings?
[22:14] <nicklally> For next week at least? or is there a better night?
[22:14] <josh> my inclination is to say we could have something 
implemented 3 weeks after sketches, from a drupal config standpoint
[22:14] <michaelv> irc works
[22:14] <josh> Sunday meetings aren't the greatest for me but why 
don't we stick with it, if it works for now
[22:15] <josh> what do we think about these milestones:
01[22:15] <Jay> Sunday nights are usually good for me.  I haven't 
heard from anyone in Europe on the alternatives list who want to do 
design, except maybe Dimitris.  Forward motion is key though, and I'm 
sure he'd be willing to plug in in other ways.
[22:16] <josh> May 4: Wireframes.  May 18: Design sketches.  June 8: 
Initial site implementation
01[22:16] <Jay> Wow.  That sounds amazing.
[22:16] <nicklally> ok
[22:16] <josh> dates give us something to work around and towards, anyway
[22:16] <michaelv> yes agreed
[22:16] <nicklally> my only hesitation is that we'll want to discuss 
and refine the design sketches, so they won't be ready for you to 
start implementing immediately
[22:17] <josh> that's ok, because we can be getting other things in order
[22:17] <nicklally> But maybe that's enough time for you. And what 
about coding? I can help with that, if needed
[22:17] <josh> also i guess the agreement has to be that we can only 
do as much as we have time to do :)
[22:17] <josh> we don't have to go live with whatever we have
[22:17] <josh> but in a way i think limitations will help us narrow 
our sea of possibility
[22:18] <josh> yeah that would be great to work together on that
[22:18] <nicklally> yeah, true. and "going live" is a way for us to 
see it and start refining, right?
[22:18] <michaelv> also, lpimc is in the same situation and general 
design considerations as imc-alt, can we talk some at the end about 
this? Can the Lancaster imc coders share in the imc-alt drupal code 
to help get out site up along the same timeline?
[22:18] <josh> exactly
[22:19] <josh> michael, absolutely
[22:19] <nicklally> also, i would like to talk a little more about 
our site "vision" or sitemap before we run off to make wireframes.
[22:19] <josh> i would be happy to talk with them and i now know how 
to stage the philly imc drupal-indymedia configuration
[22:20] <josh> i actually have to run so i am going to do that, but i 
will be lurking and listening :)  hurray for the project!
[22:20] <michaelv> i think the sitemap needs to be sectioned into phases of dev
[22:20] <michaelv> what we can do now to go live, and what can be 
done in the next versions
[22:22] <nicklally> you and josh seem to be more knowledgeable about that.
[22:23] <michaelv> just going off of what strp posted to the mailing 
list today, it made sense
01[22:24] <Jay> Josh is soon to dash off.  Anyone have any essential 
last minute questions for him?
[22:24] <josh> or, to simply, maybe we can just say that we will 
start with the simplest sitemap to start with that will fulfill the 
core function of the site
[22:25] <michaelv> I want to get josh in touch with our local drupal tech Ben
[22:25] <nicklally> I like what strype said:
[22:25] <nicklally> Once the conceptual design is fleshed out, it's 
up to the geeks to
[22:25] <nicklally> come up with an implementation roadmap for 
turning the design brief
[22:25] <nicklally> into a working site. This may mean dividing those 
features you have
[22:25] <nicklally> requested into at least three categories:
[22:25] <nicklally> 1) what can be done now with existing code
[22:25] <nicklally> 2) what can be done soon by modifying or maturing 
existing code
[22:25] <nicklally> 3) what will need to be researched or coded from scratch
[22:25] <josh> yeah i like that too
[22:25] <michaelv> it really made sense and cleared up the mud
[22:26] <michaelv> so first step, what can be done now?
[22:26] <josh> so one question is whether we need to identify #1 
before the sitemap can be built
[22:26] <nicklally> and i josh, i think this really makes sense to 
push to get our ideas out there and things will really start to make 
sense once the "geeks" tell us what's what
[22:26] <josh> i was kinda thinking we would really assess #1 at the 
beginning of imjplementation
[22:26] <michaelv> yes, I think the first sitemap would be step one
[22:27] <nicklally> well, i think we've started with our basic idea 
of the sitemap. and i think the sitemap will be fluid and change as we go
[22:27] <josh> yea sounds great
[22:27] <michaelv> yes, agreed
[22:27] <nicklally> the way i think about designing this is having 
the 4 big categories jay mentioned
[22:27] <nicklally> and making wireframes that make each one into 
it's own little homepage
[22:27] <michaelv> josh, can we have something like filmforge with 
the first upshoot
[22:28] <nicklally> then we can design to have room for additions. 
room to add menu items. to add boxes with features. and have the 
design include some of the things we've talked about.
01[22:28] <Jay> Nick, that sounds great.  Very simple and straightforward.
[22:29] <nicklally> then the feedback from the "geeks" will help me a 
lot in refining this sitemap once i know what's possible. or what 
people want to do for the initial release
[22:30] <nicklally> and i like the idea of making a stripped-down 
design and making our ideal indymedia site, like strype mentioned in 
his email. challenge people to think about these big, ambitious ideas we have.
[22:32] <nicklally> so i feel pretty good about going into the 
wireframe stage. what about everyone else?
06[22:32] * josh signals thumbs up
[22:33] <michaelv> josh, what is your email
[22:33] <josh>  i am josh.marcus at gmail.com
[22:33] <michaelv> I will include you in the email to Ben about 
drupal dev stuff
01[22:33] <Jay> Let's wireframe!!
[22:33] <nicklally> ok, so me and jay and anyone else who wants to 
participate, will come up with wireframes by sunday. then we'll discuss them.
[22:34] <nicklally> should we send an email to the list inviting 
people to participate?
[22:34] <josh> sounds good
01[22:34] <Jay> Certainly.  Nick, would you do that?  I send so many 
e-mails to the list I'm afraid people gloss over what I send nowadays.
01[22:34] <Jay> :)
[22:35] <nicklally> Ha, ok!
01[22:35] <Jay> Plus, I've never wireframed, so you and Michael and 
others will have to lead me by the nose through the process.
[22:35] <nicklally> You'll do great! Just lay down some boxes with labels!
01[22:36] <Jay> I guess I can do that...maybe.  Should we each come 
up with our own at first and compare them, or should one of you come 
up with the first and then we can have something to tinker with?
[22:36] <michaelv> I am going to finish the box frames I drew in my 
notebook, with labels, etc
[22:37] <michaelv> lol
03[22:37] * nicklally_ (nicklally at 45386a.2da930.6bab5f.625a2b) has 
joined #alternatives
01[22:37] <Jay> Michael, that's a great start.  I'll work better on 
this if I have something in front of me to move arond.
[22:37] <michaelv> just imagine the skeletal view of the site you 
have in your head
[22:37] <nicklally_> oops, just got disconnected.
[22:37] <michaelv> not all the gritty details, but the basic feel of 
the frontend look
[22:37] <michaelv> did anyone check out that free design link I put up?
01[22:38] <Jay> Nick, if you missed it, Michael is going to send us a basic
[22:38] <nicklally_> yeah
[22:38] <michaelv> nick you are in twice
[22:38] <nicklally_> ahhh!!
[22:38] <nicklally_> basic what?
01[22:38] <Jay> Michael is going to send basic boxes based upon what 
he's thinking and we can leap forth from there.
[22:38] <michaelv> that happens when I am in xchat and my terminal 
sometimes, and pigin
[22:38] <nicklally_> great
[22:38] <michaelv> I will get the finished by mid week, scan and send 
to the list?
[22:39] <nicklally_> sounds good. anything else we should cover?
[22:39] <michaelv> i sent that email to our local drupal tech with 
you cc'd Josh
02[22:39] * nicklally (nicklally at 45386a.2da930.6bab5f.625a2b) Quit 
(Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
[22:40] <michaelv> can someone get the chat log? I had to reboot so 
lost a great deal from my own log
[22:40] <nicklally_> i lost a bit too.
01[22:40] <Jay> It all sounds great to me.  I'm really excited about 
this.  After talking for a zillion years about this project we're 
finally doing some practical work.
01[22:40] <Jay> I think I may have the log.  Let me check.
[22:41] <michaelv> and we need to update some of the crabgrass pages 
with our updated info, which I can do some, but we need to flesh out 
the sitemap steps I think
[22:41] <nicklally_> michael--are you going to upload the boxes to 
the crabgrass page?
[22:41] <josh> yeah!  let's make this into a reality
[22:41] <michaelv> yeah, I can do that
[22:41] <michaelv> into a group chat I will embedd it
[22:41] <michaelv> I sound like yoda
[22:41] <nicklally_> great. i'll email the list and tell people to 
look for it and invite them to make wireframes.
[22:43] <michaelv> figure out how to get the chat log, Jay?
01[22:43] <Jay> I have the log.
01[22:43] <Jay> I'll e-mail it to the alternatives list when we're done.
01[22:43] <Jay> are we done? :))
[22:44] <michaelv> I will update some info on crabgrass to reflect 
our sitemap discussion, and everyone should help arrange the first 
step sitemap to one that fits realistically?
[22:44] <michaelv> I think so, Josh
[22:44] <michaelv> can filmforge be included in the first phase, just curious
[22:45] <nicklally_> ok, i feel good about this! i feel done over here ;)
01[22:45] <Jay> I have to get going.  Great meeting 
everyone!  hurray hurray.
[22:45] <michaelv> i have to fix a feature on phillyimc, so gnight all
[22:45] <nicklally_> bye everyone
01[22:45] <Jay> Michael, I'm looking forward to seeing those starter 
wireframes.  I'll put thought into site layout etc.
01[22:45] <Jay> Goodnight.
01[22:46] <Jay> !
Session Close: Sun Apr 27 22:46:06 2008