[Imc-alternatives] NAMES: alternatives vs. solutions -- please vote by July 5

Thu Jun 26 07:36:12 PDT 2008

hi,

i can agree with jay's thoughts here, even if i like the idea of  
inviting more input without it pulling us off track into  
explanation.  but there is always a "danger" when we open it up.  :)

love
sheri

On Jun 26, 2008, at 1:24 AM, Jay wrote:

> At 6/25/2008, Josef Davies-Coates wrote:
>> Yes, lets try to summarise the opinions that have already been  
>> expressed, share them, and set-up a vote between alternatives and  
>> solutions, getting as many people not on this list as possible to  
>> participate. Sounds like a good plan to me :)
>>
>> I just hope it results in a clear winner! :P
>>
>> Josef.
>
> I'm usually one to favor opening up conversations to as many people  
> as possible, so the thought of putting the issue on the imc- 
> communication list is somewhat appealing, but I also feel that we  
> have so many thoughtful people on this list already who have been  
> thinking about this project for a long time and have come up with  
> good pros and cons of each of the names.  I'm afraid that opening  
> up the discussion so broadly may result in our having to do a lot  
> of explaining what we're doing and not result in much conclusive  
> feedback.
>
> I'd rather we try the internal poll -- alternatives vs. solutions  
> -- and see if there's a clear preference.  This seems to be set up  
> at " https://we.riseup.net/imc-alt/official-domain-and-title 
> +8890" (go the page then click "edit my vote.")  When you vote your  
> picture will appear on the list at right, so we can see who voted  
> so far and who hasn't.  Let's set a July 5 deadline.  **PLEASE VOTE  
> BY JULY 5.**  Then, if we're really deadlocked, or if we come to a  
> favorite but we still feel really unsatisfied by it, we can decide  
> if we should do something else.
>
> In the meantime, there really is substantial progress being made  
> toward getting our site up.  Nick has put together a great rough  
> design.  Here are the initial site sketches ( https://we.riseup.net/ 
> imc-alt/initial-site-sketches+9583 -- click on the attachments at  
> right) and here is the mockup home page: https://we.riseup.net/imc- 
> alt/mockup-home-page.  Please comment.  Soon we will start working  
> on implementation, which means we'll take the basic design ideas  
> and nudge them into the PhillyIMC's drupal code to see how we make  
> make it work.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>> 2008/6/25 <lancaster-imc at riseup.net >:
>> Yes, communications would be a good choice. I am on that list and  
>> so is
>> Jay. Jay, do you want to put our naming situation to the  
>> communication's
>> list for some outside input? Perhaps some other global lists as well?
>> mV
>>
>>
>> > i like the idea of inviting in other voices.  it's an inclusive  
>> move and
>> > will give us a sense of the greater ecosystem
>> > of indymedia...
>> >
>> > what about sending it to the imc-communication list?  or imc- 
>> research?
>> > i'd love to hear some of their thoughts, even
>> > if the list is all quiet, there are people who care very much  
>> about all of
>> > this work and the next evolution of
>> > indymedia, etc.
>> >
>> > it would also help to bring the larger community into our process.
>> >
>> > love
>> > sheri
>> >
>> > On Tue Jun 24 16:45 , lancaster-imc at riseup.net sent:
>> >
>> >>Perhaps this question of either alternatives or solutions should  
>> be taken
>> >>to a different list that can act as an arbitrator. As I can seen  
>> it, it
>> >> is
>> >>just about straight down the middle, which means we are at an  
>> impasse. I
>> >>stand strong with my reasons for why alternatives makes sense as  
>> the
>> >> name,
>> >>but I am beginning to feel an outside survey might be an option  
>> at this
>> >>point.
>> >>
>> >>mV
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> 2008/6/19 Sheri Herndon sheri at speakeasy.net>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> we also can change the name should the perfect name come to  
>> us later.
>> >>>> like
>> >>>> zaadz did with gaia...not that that's a perfect name either.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Zaadz got brought out by gaiam.com hence the name change.
>> >>>
>> >>> As for solutions sounding elitist/vanguardist I can see where  
>> you're
>> >>> coming
>> >>> from but I totally disagree.
>> >>>
>> >>> It annoys me when so many people who DO have knowledge about real
>> >>> solutions
>> >>> (I've seen their bookshelves) constantly say "I don't have all  
>> the
>> >>> solutions" in an attempt to be open and inclusive (this, I  
>> believe, is
>> >>> out
>> >>> of our deepest fear, as Ghandi put "that we are powerful beyond
>> >>> measure").
>> >>>
>> >>> Well, of course they don't have ALL the solutions; there are  
>> no one
>> >>> solution
>> >>> fits all but we DO have LOTS of solutions to current global  
>> problems
>> >>> and
>> >>> that is what I believe the site should be focussed on.
>> >>>
>> >>> We are not alternative. As David Korten says:
>> >>>
>> >>> "We are not representatives of an alternative fringe minority.  
>> We are
>> >>> the
>> >>> cutting edge of a national and global supermajority and it is
>> >>> appropriate
>> >>> for us to speak with a clear and confident voice"
>> >>>
>> >>> Some examples of solutions:
>> >>>
>> >>> Problem -> Solution
>> >>> Corporate tyranny -> Co-operatives
>> >>> Private Land Ownership -> Community Land Trusts
>> >>> Debt-based monetary system -> Mutual credit systems
>> >>> Microsoft monopoly -> Linux
>> >>> Bankrupt farmers -> Community Supported Agriculture
>> >>> GM Monoculture -> Organic farming
>> >>> Oil dependency -> stop wasting so much energy and harness a  
>> mix of
>> >>> renewables
>> >>> etc. etc.
>> >>>
>> >>> You see, lots of very well established solutions DO exist.
>> >>>
>> >>> Surely our job is to share and spread them far and wide to  
>> inspire
>> >>> radical
>> >>> change?
>> >>>
>> >>> Worldchanging.com is right:
>> >>>
>> >>> "real solutions already exist for building the future we want.  
>> it's
>> >>> just a
>> >>> matter of grabbing hold and getting moving"
>> >>>
>> >>> Josef.
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Josef Davies-Coates
>> >>> 07974 88 88 95
>> >>> http://uniteddiversity.com
>> >>> Together We Have Everything
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Imc-alternatives mailing list
>> >>> Imc-alternatives at lists.indymedia.org
>> >>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-alternatives
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Josef Davies-Coates
>> 07974 88 88 95
>> http://uniteddiversity.com
>> Together We Have Everything
>> _______________________________________________
>> Imc-alternatives mailing list
>> Imc-alternatives at lists.indymedia.org
>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-alternatives
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“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model  
obsolete.”
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