[Imc-alternatives] code base choice

Thu Mar 20 07:56:49 PDT 2008

Hi Ryan and all,

Glad to hear from you!

I think the recent burst of energy on the imc-alternatives list about 
code choices has to do with the fact that we went into a dormant 
period toward the end of 2007 in anticipation of the imc-cms choice 
coming soon but hadn't heard about any progress for several 
months.  Rather than wait indefinitely, we started to focus again on 
things we could do on our own to get the project moving.

>We are going to hold an imc-cms IRC meeting this coming weekend, so
>that may be a good opportunity to join up with us, see what we've been
>doing, and so on. You can email me or just email the imc-cms list if
>you have any questions!

I'm excited about this.  I don't think I can make the meeting, but if 
I can I will.  There are also several members of the alternatives 
project that are part of the imc-cms list, so I hope someone will 
reportback to this list about imc-cms progress after the meeting.

I think ideally we would all be able to go with the indymedia unified 
code choice and focus our energy in the same direction!  We do have 
people willing to bottomline a Plone/Indycore version of the site 
though, and the Lancaster IMC tech team is building a very similar 
site to the alternatives site, working in Drupal using the new 
PhillyIMC code as a foundation.

If the imc-cms choice is coming soon, that will strongly come into 
play in our decision of which direction to go.  If it's going to be 
months and more months in the future, my sense is that the 
alternatives project should take advantage of this current burst of 
energy in whatever way possible.  That may mean working on a couple 
different backends of the site and seeing which one sticks, that may 
mean putting something in place for the next year or two with the 
thought of migrating to the unified imc-cms when it's 
solidified....  Whatever we choose, we've been talking and talking so 
much.  Getting a site together, any site, will be a tremendous boost.

Jay

At 3/17/2008, you wrote:
>Hi everybody!
>
>I'm not exactly sure what this thread is about, but I wanted to make
>sure that everyone knew about the imc-cms effort that is going on.
>There was been some ebb and flow with the development effort, but
>we're about to enter a new upswing in dev efforts beginning with a
>meeting that we are planning soon.
>
>The imc-cms effort has been going on for a while and we have invested
>a LOT of time in prototyping, feature requirements and also building
>an architecture that is resistant to government censorship, server
>seizures and general data loss.
>
>This effort began at the Techmeet 2006 summit in Sao Paulo, Brazil. At
>that summit, the people who have been mostly responsible for running a
>lot of the IMC's over the years got together in person to address the
>most serious problem that affects IMC's -- the labor problem. That is,
>over the years, the actual day-to-day work that is required to keep
>IMC's running, fighting off spam attacks, etc has fallen on the
>shoulders of just about a dozen people. They have kept these sites
>going with their time, labor AND money.
>
>So, we've invested a lot of time trying to figure out the BEST
>platform upon which to build an "imc2" which a focus on a lot of
>issues that I think are only really apparent to the people who have
>learned through experience the pitfalls that afflict IMC server farms.
>
>I've mentioned this here before but everyone is welcome to join the
>list, which you can do at http://lists.indymedia.org/imc-cms
>
>We think it is best that we do as much as possible to coordinate
>efforts. A lot of people have come up with a lot of ideas and that's
>great -- but we are asking everyone to help focus that energy in one
>direction so that we get the best results.
>
>We are going to hold an imc-cms IRC meeting this coming weekend, so
>that may be a good opportunity to join up with us, see what we've been
>doing, and so on. You can email me or just email the imc-cms list if
>you have any questions!
>
>-ryan
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 2008-03-16 at 19:24 -0700, lancaster-imc at riseup.net wrote:
> > > Out of curiosity, would there be space on that server for the lpimc test
> > > site? We currently are using one of our member's old computers 
> as a server
> > > in his parent's basement, and it is really old and clunky. Just thought I
> > > would ask.
> >
> > You would have to ask the axxs-sysadmin list ..
> >
> > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/axxs-sysadmin
> >
> > and put forward a proposal, I am but one member of a collective ;)
> >
> > http://wiki.axxs.org/index.php/FormLetters
> >
> > Davo
> >
> > > Michaelv
> > >
> > > > On Sun, 2008-03-16 at 18:52 -0400, Aaron Kreider wrote:
> > > >> >Drupal uses a mysql, a relational database backend by default, and
> > > >> Plone
> > > >> >uses an object database (Z Object Database or ZODB) by 
> default, so this
> > > >> >would be difficult to say the least as they are very 
> different database
> > > >> >formats.
> > > >>
> > > >> I think using a code base that would work with mysql is a good choice,
> > > >> perhaps a critical one.  If you go with Plone, you're using a database
> > > >> that is uncommon.
> > > >
> > > > Oh I agree that it is uncommon compared to mysql.
> > > >
> > > > out of interest :
> > > >
> > > > 
> http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za/Members/roche/where-im-calling-from/zodb-benchmarks-revisited
> > > >
> > > > hopefully dispells some myths about ZODB performance.
> > > >
> > > >> But if you go with cakephp or drupal (or one of many other cmses that
> > > >> use mysql) and use mysql - a lot more people are going to 
> understand it,
> > > >> and be able to write either proper or hacked-up interfaces if they
> > > >> wanted to create their own indymedia software (or extend the existing
> > > >> version).  It should also facilitate migration.
> > > >
> > > > I think the argument between which to use can go on forever .. what it
> > > > comes down to is which actually gets built and getting on with seeing
> > > > where a momentum lies, considering I have found it trivial for instance
> > > > to create csv, XML or such from Plone objects in any format required,
> > > > whereas with Mysql, you have to consider the structure of the data
> > > > originally to a greater extent.
> > > >
> > > > It really depends on momentum. If there's momentum in two directions
> > > > both can only learn and build on each other, but I think we just need
> > > > SOME momentum atm.
> > > >
> > > > BTW it looks as tho we have the go-ahead for setting up dev space on
> > > > borg.axxs.org for both projects ..
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Aaron
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Imc-alternatives mailing list
> > > >> Imc-alternatives at lists.indymedia.org
> > > >> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-alternatives
> > > > --
> > > > Dave Fregon
> > > >
> > > > NetAxxs Workers Collective
> > > > Ph:  +613 5721 7777
> > > > Mob: 0434 000 234
> > > > 25A Ely Street
> > > > Wangaratta 3677
> > > > Australia
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Imc-alternatives mailing list
> > > > Imc-alternatives at lists.indymedia.org
> > > > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-alternatives
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Imc-alternatives mailing list
> > > Imc-alternatives at lists.indymedia.org
> > > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-alternatives
> > --
> > Dave Fregon
> >
> > NetAxxs Workers Collective
> > Ph:  +613 5721 7777
> > Mob: 0434 000 234
> > 25A Ely Street
> > Wangaratta 3677
> > Australia
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Imc-alternatives mailing list
> > Imc-alternatives at lists.indymedia.org
> > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-alternatives
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