[Imc-beirut] [Imc-pl-red] translation request [Imc-pl] PROPOZYCJA startpage special antysyjonizm/antysemityzm TERMIN pon 21.08.2006 02.00g (fwd)

Tue Aug 22 08:20:13 PDT 2006

[
hi imc-il, imc-beirut,

Sorry to get you involved in this internal dispute - we have ongoing
confusion within imc poland about decision-making processes and a
recent conflict to do with someone publicly putting "SS" in his
nickname and describing it as his private personal sense of humour and
an activist making a hitler salute at a public antiwar demonstration
in Warsaw.

The more general context is the Third Positionists who attempt to blur
the line between:
  anti-racist anti-corporate anti-capitalist anti-authoritarian activists 
and
  racist activists who claim to be anti-corporate anti-capitalist anti-communist.

For more info, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Third_Position

The political context - extreme-right parties in government and
neoliberals as the "pro-human-rights" opposition - also makes it
politically unpopular to oppose racism.

But we can look on the good side: a few indymedia poland activists other
than me are finally starting to communicate directly with the network. :)
]

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Ewa Malenka wrote:

> Hello,
>
> unfortunately, Boud's request aboud a translation of a statement concerning 
> the polish indymedia policy concerning antisemitism and the writting about 
> Israel did not meet a geniune consensus on the polish indymedia lists./

maleństwo - sorry, but saying "did not meet a genuine consensus" is
misleading.

i think what you mean is "we did have consensus on this proposal, but
now we no longer have consensus, and i (malenka) prefer active
consensus to passive consensus".

Is this correct?

Please check the imc-pl mailing list archive:

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-pl/2006-August/thread.html

The proposal was made on 13 Aug with a 7-day deadline:

boud 
Sun Aug 13 16:35:58 PDT 2006
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-pl/2006-August/0813-yk.html

> [Imc-pl] PROPOZYCJA startpage special antysyjonizm/antysemityzm TERMIN pon 21.08.2006 02.00g

One person supported this (you):

Ewa Malenka 
Mon Aug 14 00:25:20 PDT 2006
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-pl/2006-August/0814-b6.html

Nobody expressed any objections within the standard 7-day deadline.

After waiting more than 7 days, harc expressed an objection:

harcesz 
Mon Aug 21 17:58:36 PDT 2006
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-pl-red//2006-August/0822-0h.html

> boud there was no consensus, anybody didn't bother to even reply you
> outrages email, don't bother people to translate it, start special isn't
> yours and we wont agree to put there whatever you want

i think "outrages" is meant to be "outrageous".

i think people from imc israel, imc beirut will draw their own
conclusions about Arabic and Hebrew translations of this text being
"outrageous".

> Therefore the demand sent bu Boud recently does not seem to be valid...

i think what malenka means here, is that a veto was expressed after we
already had consensus, so that the request *is no longer* valid, though
it *was valid* at the time it was sent.

malenka: could you please confirm this?

> sorry, but one (Boud) should not say "we have a consens" when only one person 
> reacts to his proposals...

This is, presumably, a disagreement about whether we should have
majoritarian or passive consensus decision-making in indymedia poland.

Our decision-making method is written (in Polish) here:
  http://pl.indymedia.org/pl/lokalne/decyzje.shtml
with 7-day deadlines using passive consensus for general decision-making.

Anyway, it's clear that writing about racism in Arabic and Hebrew
would be "outrageous" for at least one volunteer in imc poland, so
this topic should return to an internal discussion. Our archives our
public (but mostly in polish).

malenka - could you please tell me if my understanding is correct?

solidarity, shalom, salaam,
boud

> Greetings, ewa/ indymedia warsaw (pl)
>
>
>
>
>
> boud napisał(a):
>
>> hi imc-il, imc-beirut, imc-palestine list,
>> 
>> [imc-pl-red is the imc-pl editorial list - we already have consensus
>> on the general list for this proposal.]
>> 
>> 
>> i wonder if someone would be able to provide hebrew and arabic translations 
>> of the following text that we have consensed to put
>> at the top of the indymedia poland website front page - in polish,
>> hebrew and arabic ?  (We already have polish :), but we need he and ar.)
>> 
>> For the arabic page, i propose this link on "racism", since there doesn't
>> seem to be a wikipedia page there on "stereotype":
>> 
>> http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B9%D9%86%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9
>> 
>> i've put the hebrew "stereotype" page here in this english version of
>> the text.
>> 
>> The context here is people posting on the pl.indymedia site not quite
>> knowing where the borderline is between criticising a state and making
>> a racist generalisation, and the hope is that by showing that we are
>> indeed an international network opposed to racism not just in
>> rhetoric, but also in practical cooperation, maybe the message will
>> sink through.
>> 
>> It might be good to send the text as UTF-8 or post it on a web page
>> somewhere, or at least, please say something about what coding it's
>> in (even if it's windoze), or maybe send it as an attachment.
>> 
>> thanks
>> boud (imc-pl volunteer)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Anyway, here's the text to translate:
>> 
>> 
>> ######################################################################
>> 
>> <p>
>> Warning: we would like to remind everyone that
>> <a href="http://pl.indymedia.org/pl/lokalne/polityka.shtml">according to
>> our present editorial policy</a> we have nothing against publication of 
>> material which criticises any state anywhere in the world.
>> However, we try to hide "material which includes <a 
>> href="http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A1%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%90%D7%95%D7%98%D7%99%D7%A4">insults 
>> or offensive accusations against individuals or groups</a>. <strong>In 
>> simple words: criticising Israel as a state: acceptable; <a 
>> href="http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A1%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%90%D7%95%D7%98%D7%99%D7%A4"> 
>> generalisations</a> about Jews: no!</strong>
>> </p>
>> 
>> ######################################################################
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 01:35:58 +0200 (CEST)
>> From: boud To: imc-pl at ...
>> Subject: [Imc-pl] PROPOZYCJA startpage special antysyjonizm/antysemityzm 
>> TERMIN
>>     pon 21.08.2006 02.00g
>> 
>> Witam imc-pl
>> 
>> Aby jaśnie pokazywać róźnica między nami i faszystami, proponuję
>> publikacja w startpage-special taki tekst (najważna część, to cytat
>> punktu 3.1 z pol.redak.) w:
>> 
>> * po polsku +  po arabsku + po hebrajsku
>> 
>> Cel jest pokazywać, że nie jesteśmy sieci narodowa, jesteśmy
>> antyrasistowska - też, byłoby ochrona przeciwko tych próbują niszczyć
>> indymedia.
>> 
>> ######################################################################
>> WERSJA POLSKA:
>> 
>> <p>
>> Uwaga: przypominamy wszystkim, że <a
>> href="http://pl.indymedia.org/pl/lokalne/polityka.shtml">w aktualnej
>> polityce redakcyjnej</a> nie mamy nic przeciwko publikowaniu
>> materiałów krytycznych wobec jakiegokolwiek państwa w świecie.
>> Staramy się jednak ukrywać ,,materiały zawierające <a 
>> href="http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/stereotyp">
>> obelgi lub obraźliwe
>> zarzuty pod adresem jednostek lub grup</a>. <strong>W prostych słowach:
>> krytyka przeciwko Izraelowi jako państwu: może być; <a 
>> href="http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/stereotyp">
>> uogólnienie</a> dotyczące Żydów: nie!</strong>
>> </p>
>> ######################################################################
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Imc-pl-red mailing list
>> Imc-pl-red at lists.indymedia.org
>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-pl-red
>> 
>
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