[Imc-beirut] thus a couple of the cartoons should be prohibited: the Danish paper's interesting past
sensenig at cyberia.net.lb
Fri Feb 10 22:15:02 PST 2006
RE: I believe that freedom of speech has its limits in racism, sexism etc.
Dear Blue, et al.,
Do you know the great comic book of saints? I use it a look in teaching at both LAU and NDU, some people get concerned at the idea, until they look at the comix and then they calm down. That's the point, most of the demonstrators have never seen the Mohammad cartoons they are so opposed to.
I) However, your support for limits on freedom of speech is the real core issue here. There are two schools of thought, one is practiced in the MENA, France, CH, Germany, Austria, etc. and agrees that there should be legal limits on freedom of expression, even if it is not related to other crimes, e.g. violence, theft, etc.
II) The other camp, e.g. especially as practiced in the US, makes a clear distinction between speech per se and actions. Hate speak is permitted, using speech to prepare for a crime is prohibited.
Personally, I want to work for a society in Lebanon that supports camp II, but this is up to the democratic process, InAllahRad, to decide. BTW: Why do you want to prohibit hate speech based on sex or race, but not on religion? That doesn't make any sense, but does fit the hypocritical approach in the EU, e.g. the new religious vilification law in the UK.
PS: If there are any students on this list, my wife Dima and I will be highlighting this issue in our respective courses on Media Law and International Human Rights this semester. It would be great if this whole mess could lead to something positive, e.g. a free and independent youth platform on freedom of expression, and by "independent" I mean not dependent on the ruling party, confessional and kinship or clan elites. Otherwise we get the same results as we saw with the "independent" 14th of March movement. (You won't see me demonstrating for their cause on Tuesday!)
BTW, is anyone following the debate on the Platform for today's demo in Copenhagen?
----- Original Message -----
To: <Imc-beirut at lists.indymedia.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 1:07 AM
Subject: [Imc-beirut] Re: the Danish paper's interesting past
very interesting, especially the Jesus stuff. Where did you find it? This should, indeed, be mentioned. However, I have the impression from all I have read that most people in the world agree that the Jyllands-Posten is a shitty little paper. But that's not the point. There are tons of shitty little papers in the Arab world that publish antisemitic crap on a daily bases (and I mean antisemetic and not anti-Israeli), e.g. that Jews kidnap children to bake bread for the Pessach feast. Should they publish such crap?
No. Should we call for more censorship in the Arab world therefore? Certainly not.
Of course it's a difficult subject. There is the undeniable racism of the
Danish government and apparently also of this paper. This needs to be
protested against. The thing is, people are not protesting against racism
but against the fact that Mohammed has been portrayed at all. Their argument
is religious. And while I believe that freedom of speech has its limits in racism, sexism etc. (and thus a couple of the cartoons should be prohibited
- but not by the prime minister, but by a court) I also strongly believe
that religion should by no means limit freedom of speech.
Btw. not all the cartoons were racist. One shows a little boy called
Mohammed who writes on a black board: "Jyllands-Posten culture desk are a
bunch of reactionary old men."
semk imb writes:
> Some important facts to be recalled when discussing the cartoons of the Prophet by the Danish paper Jyllands-Posten:
> · When the fascist Benito Mussolini came to power in Italy in 1922, the Jyllands-Posten paper wrote, The very strong man, that Mussolini absolutely is, is exactly what the misruled Italian people need.
> · In 1933 the paper argued for dictatorship in Denmark, saying, We must assume that a majority of the voters wish for dictatorship as the only solution to the administration of the state.
> · In 1984 it campaigned against the artist Jens Jørgen Thorsen, who was commissioned by a local art club to paint the wall of a railway station. The work showed a naked Jesus with an erect penis.
> · In the 2001 election, Jyllands-Posten played a crucial role in support of the victorious right wing Venstre party. It has since supported the governing coalition led by prime minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen which includes the rabidly anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim Danish Peoples Party.
> · In 2003 the paper refused to print a cartoon of the resurrection of Jesus in 2003. The paper feared that publication of the cartoon would provoke anger among Christians.
> In October 29, 2004 the papers cultural editor Flemming Rose interviewed at length US neo-con Daniel Pipes in an article entitled The Threat of Islam, which opens According to Daniel Pipes, the Muslim world at the moment is trying, for the third time, to define itself in relation to the West. The two first attempts aimed at (or resulted in) imitating various aspects of the West. The third represents a totalitarian ideology, commensurate to fascism and communism.
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