[IMC-Boston-Discuss] explanation of on-list vs. off-list in 48 words--LUR...

Matthew Williams mw21 at mindspring.com
Thu Jul 7 15:10:30 PDT 2005

I think the workshops Andrew suggests are an excellent idea.

I certainly was not accusing anyone of trying to intentionally thwart 
the democratic process by excluding people from decision-making. I 
don't think anyone was. As I said in my last e-mail, the problem is 
that sometimes these things can happen *unintentionally*. Come one, 
haven't any of you done something that didn't have the results you 
expected, like accidentally hurting someone's feelings? When you're 
dealing with groups, there are actually certain regular patterns to how 
they work, and the creation of informal, unintended hierarchies in 
consensus groups that aren't careful about keeping lines of 
communication open is one of them. Not because anyone was trying to 
shut people out, but because people didn't realize they were doing it. 
One of the ways to keep undemocratic decisions from being made is to 
try to keep communication channels as open as possible, by discussing 
ideas on list and in meetings. Yes, sometimes things will happen 
off-list and that's fine--as long as they are then brought to 
everyone's attention on list, in meeting or both, as Jon suggests. But 
I feel like as much discussion as possible should happen on list.

-- Matt

On Jul 7, 2005, at 5:04 PM, Jonathan D. Proulx wrote:

> I'm rather confused by your last emnail.
> Are you infavor of list based discussion or off list discussion?
> Certainly people will have private conversations that may include
> IndyMedia ideas.  I think these should then be brought to the list and
> discussed, or possibly a meeting and then sent round the list as
> minutes from that meeting.
> Frankly I'm a bit baffled by the whole discussion, perhaps because it
> was started off list, perhaps because I've been burried in other
> things and dropped a few pieces of mail.
> Out side operational security issues, which someone brought up earlier
> and are quite rare or conversation amoung friends (which is then
> brought to the group through the lists or a meetin), I can't imagine a
> reason for offlist discussion to have any formal standing.  I don't
> mean that confrontationally, just in my mind and teh way other groups
> I'm a part of work I can't see it, but if some one will put it on the
> list I'll look.
> -Jon
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