[imc-cms] proposed corrections to wiki pages: CMSProposal + CMS_Summary

Txopi txopi at sindominio.net
Sun Nov 25 08:02:06 PST 2007


ryan(e)k dio:
>> max did not give any reasons against any of the concrete changes i 
>> proposed, he only gave meta-reasons.
>>     
>
> What the hell is a "meta-reason"? This is what I wrote before about
> the confusing use of jargon (jargao, jerga) as a way to illegitimately 
> manipulate process. 
>
> Max gave reasons, I read them myself, and I agree with them!
>
>
>   
>> Sorry, i don't understand. CMS_Summary has the word "summary", not
>> "proposal".
>>     
>
> That *is* what what page name is called. But what I originally wrote
> is very clear:
> "The recommendations of this author (Ryan from SF-IMC, Linefeed,
> SFCCP, etc) are that out of everything we reviewed, we are left with 3
> directions in which we should go [...] These are only my 
> recommendations. They basically could amount to nothing but it is the 
> conclusion I came to after reviewing a year's worth of research."
>
> So, I think the original document could best be described as a
> individual person's summary that is offered as a proposal on what to
> do.
>
> A bunch of people seem to agree with that course of action and are
> moving forward with it. I don't think there's anything you can do
> about that now besides increase your own participation in the projects
> however you want. Going back and starting over just isn't going to
> happen. If you want to add Samizdat to the short list and join us 
> around December 1st to discuss it, then by all means to do so. 
>
>
>   
>>> reason to go and change them now. Just take them as they are and if
>>> you want to add additional information to them, just add different
>>> info on other wiki pages. -ryan
>>>       
>> i think you forgot that toya has proposed sending out a general
>> message which includes a link to the page you wrote. Since you seem to
>> feel that that is a very personal page rather than a collective page,
>>     
>
> Nah, I'm not in favor of your change ... mostly because there's no
> good reason why. Again, that *is* the proposal, that *is* what we're
> doing, and it *is* written in a personal, "here's-what-I-think" format.
> All of that is perfectly okay. I believe that your proposals introduce
> unnecessary delays that don't really correct any wrongs anyway. I'm
> evenr getting to the point whre *arguing* about this stuff is starting
> to create unnecessary delays.
>
>   
>> Does anyone have objections to this proposal?
>>     
>
> Yes, I join the chorus of objections. o
>
> -----------------------
>
> Boud, this has nothing to do with this topic, really, it's just that I
> don't really know you as well as I do other people on this list and I
> want to understand where you are coming from. So can I ask -> when did
> you become involved in Indymedia? Do you work with any local IMC's as
> members of their group? Are you involved in other types of activism
> and how would you describe that? What do you do for a living? Where do
> you live and where is your hometown? Are you a techie and if so, what's
> our skill-set?
>
> As a gesture of trust, I'll answer first:
> a) become involved in 1999,
> b) yes, san francisco imc. i was also a local member of palestine imc
> for a while. and i was an honorary/participating member of cleveland 
> indymedia.
> d) yes, i grew up in steelworker union family so i've always been
> involved in that, other areas of interest are anti-imperialism, police
> brutality and prison industrial complex in the USA, digital civil
> rights, open source/free software, all forms of technology, involved
> in the struggle to keep legal the right to keep and bear firearms,
> independent media and your run-of-the-mill municipal politics (city
> council, gentrification, corruption, etc). i'm also heavily involved
> in solidarity work with Latin America (mostly) and the Middle East
> (not as much anymore). in many ways i agree with the agenda of the sao
> paulo forum and support that movement how i can. i believe that with
> the influx of latin americans into the united states, it is possible
> within my lifetime to export latin american 21st century socialism to
> the united states.
> e) i've run my own business full-time for about 8-9 months. before
> that, i was vp of engineering at a firm working to migrate brazilian
> governmental systems to open source software. before that, i was
> director of engineering at tagged.com, a corporate social netowkring
> site.
> f) i live in downtown san francisco, california. my hometown is
> northeast ohio.
> g) i am a techie, i've been doing management for the past 5-6 years
> but i still actively code so my skill-set includes programming (c,
> c++, php, perl, python, mostly), sysadmin (freebsd, openbsd and
> linux). not so strong on networking or security, at least not as much
> as i'd like to be.
>
> so, there you have it. let's get to know each other. otherwise i offer
> an objection to all of your suggested changes.
>   

I don't think that someone needs to have an special activist or
technical curriculum to collaborate here. Depending on our skills we can
help in many ways. The matter here isn't what boud is able to do. The
matter here is what boud is doing.

Ryan, you can be the best hacker of the world and the most engaged
indymedia collaborator, but if you are not able to work constructively
with this process (it isn't the case!), we will stop you. The same to
boud, to me or to anyone. I feel that boud, until now, is generating
noise and disturbing the process (he is acting as a troll in ana's
words). I don't care who is he, what he knows and what has done in other
lists. Here, he is not helping, and I'm not going to support nothing
that doesn't help our process.

I hope everyone here understand my position.

Txopi.



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