[Imc-communication] imc-belgium's answer to imc-liege's disaffiliation request
drdartist at riseup.net
Sat Apr 23 13:32:59 PDT 2005
The various folks from Belgium IMC respond to emails, they make
intelligent rebuttal to charges. They seem willing to talk about
details, and not just in generalities. Since they are willing to
dialog, it makes those who are making the charges appear to appeal more
to emotionalism than presenting a clear case.
Again, feeling handicapped by distance and language, I can only offer
what impressions I get from emails. (and readily admit they could be
On Apr 23, 2005, at 9:11 AM, l wrote:
> Surely this is an issue where people on the ground, close by, who can
> talk to people in and around belgium need to decide. But, if imc liege
> and other local imc's are asking for them to be disaffiliated, what
> better proof can we ask for? It seems like the local imc's have
> discussed it and are telling us that imc belgium is a problem.
> When I was in france, in toulouse, the imc toulouse volunteers all told
> me that imc belgium was basically being used as a propaganda arm for a
> political party. They know a lot better than I about the situation.
> It seems to me like we have to take some direction from the local imc's
> on the ground and act on their findings and decisions. It seems also
> like the imc's who are far away or know nothing about the situation
> should stand aside in the decision making process.
> Personally, having met folks in toulouse who I trust a lot and who have
> expressed to me the problems with imc belgium, I'm in support of other
> lcoal imc's who agree with them and want imc belgium disaffiliated.
> we don't have a process for disaffiliating imc's who aren't following
> the PoU at all, then we're in a dangerous position where the imc
> is just going to become meaningless.
and if we disaffiliate an imc that numerous people say does good work,
without some sort of factual proof of the charges against them, that is
also not a good thing.
Honestly, the case against Belgium seems to me to be frustrations and
personal conflicts, not clear factual evidence.
As I said in an earlier email, I read/speak only english, and so cannot
go read the site directly, nor many of the emails sent about it in
archives. Having said that, nobody has provided any really compelling
evidence to make me wish to disaffiliate Belgium. If the decision were
to be made today, and with what is available to read in English, I
would strongly consider advocating Portland block the disaffiliation.
That does not mean I believe the accusations to be false, but neither
have they been shown to be true. I do no know.
> Tony wrote:
>> Yes i know - but how can people on a global level determine who is
>> telling the truth? I know some people in imc-belgium/brussels are in
>> political parties (which is fine if they are acting as an individual
>> into media) - what i don't know is whether they are abusing their
>> numbers possition etc. My mail does not condoone such action in fact i
>> would be as angry as the other local belgium imc's if that is true,
>> and would feel let down by those in brussels that i have worked with
>> and trust (from my inevitable distance).
>> What I think Deva and i are saying is how can we determine this from
>> remote places without understanding the politics of the area - in the
>> end i would have to take one persons view point and trust they are
>> right and in this situation i can't - so i would prefer if local
>> belgium/dutch/french/german and UK if they can get to some face to
>> face meetings try and sort it out closer to home...
>> It is not that i am avoiding this situation but handing out judgments
>> from a global network is not a healthy way unless as the very last
>> resort, and i dont think we have got there yet.
>> cheers tony
>> At 23:15 +0200 17/04/05, Phil wrote:
>>> Hello Christophe, Deva, Tony,
>>> I do not feel like the problem posed by belgium.indymedia.org might
>>> be considered as a local issue.
>>> It is as matter of fact that membres of a local political party (no
>>> matter about its particular position) has gained control of a
>>> portal. Should we consider this neutral, should we accept the
>>> principle of negociating with the people who did that ?
>>> These are the only questions.
>>> and they matter for all collectives among the indy network. they
>>> matter a lot.
>>> So this is also a personal point of view. and even when some may
>>> qualify it insane (...) i surelly wait to see if this network chooses
>>> to face this situation and react properly to it ; as it will surely
>>> matter to know what kind of an affair we are involved in.
>>> thank you
>>> best regards
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