apb at swissmail.org
Mon May 2 14:27:29 PDT 2005
Yes. Go for it, bht.
I've been reading the archives. Influence and power do seem to (almost)
inevitably become dangerously fascinating to some, and the associated
advantages can end up corrupting, probably, even the best of us.
Others turn their backs, and just do their work, go on their way
(another way)... Life is short.
imc-canarias's new-imc guide/mentor earned great respect, because of her
very sensitive, sometimes self-questioning yet determinedly firm
approach, from those of us who went through the initial process. She
will be sorely missed by us in that role, but probably most of all by
many future spanish-speaking aspiring collectives seeking to pass
through the (purged maybe, maybe pending reformation) new-imc process.
Off the top of my head.
With great respect / Con mucho respeto.
bht dijo el 02/05/2005 16:17:
> just a quick bit of note here.
> i was also on the new-imc list and did not receive the last two mails
> because i received a list digest and was unsubscribed before i could
> receive them. I think that the counter proposal that is spoken of was
> not only unopposed, but also unapproved. but unopposed=consensus here.
> and thats a problem.
> and this problem goes into all aspects of doing global work, and i think
> it is because we fail to understand the idea of consensus together, to
> share defintions of that word. the indy version of this seems to throw
> out the window the idea of "concerns". If a proposal isnt liked instead
> of examining why and building, make soething different until people dont
> have a chance to respond/miss the proposal and that underhanded way can
> accomplish the goal desired.
> and there are positions of power. this was done by list admins and
> supported by one or two people that also had list admin access. after
> this, someone that didnt agree with the decisions who also had list
> admin access went into the list and removed the list admins. this is a
> reaction to power. this was all brushed over.
> there is a pretty intense power struggle within indymedia. there are
> issues like the one on new-imc list that get brushed over or sent
> somewhere else to be forgotten about. we are building a pretty bad base
> from which to work on.
> it is much harder, but much more sustainable to talk about the issues
> that are plaguing the network and work through them (if it is not
> possible to work through our problems and work thorugh power issues,
> then you must understand that our work against current power is quite
> basically, what i see is imcistas and indymedia in general becoming less
> and lass effective as the folks that work on it feel more and more
> ownership and want more and more control. or the movements to make it
> static. this is all hindering and leading to a final point of patterned
> (or branded) media for liberals.
> i like the idea of putting media into the hands of people, and using
> indymedia as a tactic to bring the truth out and eventually recognize
> and remove the power that exists over us. point 1, lets try to get
> along with each other if we are going to do this together. point 2, if
> we are not going to do it together, then lets stop wasting so much time.
> portland imc volunteer
> clara wrote:
>> actually I am rather surprised by this mail, since everybody on
>> new-imc was informed about the roll call and unsubscriptions. For
>> those people who have not re-subscribed these should be the last 2
>> mails they received on 1 april.
>> There was a proposal to purge the new-imc list, but a lot of people
>> disagreed on that - basically based on different visions about the
>> purpose of the new-imc list. So, as Deja points out correclty, this
>> proposal was not accepted.
>> Instead somebody else made a proposal to get a more detailed roll call
>> from everybody. Part of that was to unsubscribe everybody and to
>> approve of all re-subscriptions with a roll-call (because it's much
>> less work to do it that way round instead of sorting through mails and
>> unsubscribe those who did not take part int he roll call). Nobody
>> opposed that.
>> Two mails were send out to the new-imc mailing list to annouce that
>> again. A lot of people re-subscribed straight away again with roll
>> calls which are now available on the wiki (with info such as language
>> and location).
>> Some people complained afterwards that they didn't see those mails. Of
>> course every one of them is welcome to re-subscribe again.
>> It is a shame if a mailing list of a working group like new-imc
>> becomes unworkable because people don't read their mails. If we can't
>> trust people to read their mails sometime in a period of 3 or 4 weeks,
>> then what are we supposed to do?
>> love and solidarity
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