[Imc-communication] imc-belgium disaffiliation proposal and where it is heading or isn't heading
turlututu at indymedia.org
Mon May 9 10:24:59 PDT 2005
Hey Chekov. This is a personal reaction.
I have no doubt that the Imc which blocked have their reasons, that
their opinions is mostly based on texts/mails/discussions... they read.
On a such complicated problem and as far away, i would react probably
But at same time, i would point your attention on the fact that the 6
Imc's (7 if we count Liege) which supported the disaffiliation are in
one way or another concerned geographically by the problem, and they
observe impotent it sometimes since years...
That's why i made that map and i hope it will help
Like Chekov said, we suffer really of that situation and we want a
turlututu from Imc Liege
Chekov Feeney a écrit :
> I have to say that the way that the people from .be have dealt with
> this discussion on this list has very much persuaded me to agree with
> aic. Their slippery manner of dealing with the network sends shivers
> down my spine, and is eerily reminiscent of my history of dealing with
> authoritarians of the left. I am also none too enamoured by the way
> that the other Belgian collectives have approached the situation, but
> I consider that they suffer from problems that are _within_ the
> indymedia spectrum, something that can't be said for
> authoritarianism. Observing this discussion upclose for the first
> time has irritated me enough to contribute to the discussion against
> my better judgement, in the knowledge that it will almost certainly be
>> I have a hard time perceiving a request to kick an IMC out of the
>> as "resolving the situation". even more so, because the disaffiliation
>> request of imc-liege was based on falsed info (see our previous
>> I believe mediation is very important here, so we can set some things
>> straight, talk through some things, and see where to go from there.
> If the IMC has indeed fallen under the control of an authoritarian
> sect, then it _is_ very much resolving the situation.
> Remind us again why you think that your imc should have the
> country-wide domain rather than sharing it through a syndication site?
> Remind us too why you think that the question of your belonging to an
> international network can only be resolved by 'local' mediation and
> the international network should not have the right to choose its own
> mediator? This seems to me to be perfectly preposterous and rather
> close to George Bush's approach to international agreements.
> A few observations on this process from a fairly detached point of
> view which is unlikely to prove universally popular.
> It appears that the desire to disaffiliate belgium is directly
> proportional to the amount of knowledge that other imc-istas have
> about the situation. The other Belgian IMCs, the French and the
> Swedes are in favour, as well as those Germans who are best informed.
> On the other hand Cleveland has 'blocked' the disaffiliation. Am I
> the only one who thinks that this is the most preposterous situation
> imaginable? I am almost certain that both Cleveland and Canarias are
> far, far less informed about the situation in Belgium than the French
> or the other Belgians, and are probably unaware of the long and torrid
> history of this affair, yet we are forced to obey their decision not
> to disafilliate. (I mean no disrespect to either of those two IMC's,
> it is the abstract situation which appalls me.)
> In summation, it is glaringly, even staggeringly obvious that our one
> word approach to decision making, "consensus", is completely
> inadequate for dealing with decisions on such a scale. Let's assume
> for a moment that the charges from the other Belgian indymedias are
> accurate. In such a large network there will always be at least one
> IMC which has not followed the course of the dispute and thinks that a
> bit more mediation should be tried. It appears that we would allow an
> authoritarian sect to masquerade as an Indymedia, exploiting our work
> for their own ends and we would allow them to do it for ever. In a
> situation like this there are two things that we can do - disafiliate
> or not disafiliate - since it is clear that mediation has run its
> course. Deciding not to disafilliate is just as much a decision as
> deciding to disafilliate, yet it only needs a single vote to pass. I
> find this notion of consensus to be incredibly anti-democratic. One
> vote outweights a couple of hundred. One collective taking a decision
> forces everybody else to follow that line.
> * end of rant *
> 1 of indymedia.ie (very much written in a personal capacity and
> definitely not representative of imc.ie)
> IMC-communication mailing list
> IMC-communication at lists.indymedia.org
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