[Imc-communication] imc-belgium disaffiliation proposal and where it is heading or isn't heading

[turlututu]

Hey Chekov. This is a personal reaction.

I have no doubt that the Imc which blocked have their reasons, that 
their opinions is mostly based on texts/mails/discussions... they read. 
On a such complicated problem and as far away, i would react probably 
like them.
But at same time, i would point your attention on the fact that the 6 
Imc's (7 if we count Liege) which supported the disaffiliation are in 
one way or another concerned geographically by the problem, and they 
observe impotent it sometimes since years...

That's why i made that map and i hope it will help
http://docs.indymedia.org/twiki/pub/Local/BelgiumSituationEn/map-world.gif

Like Chekov said, we suffer really of that situation and we want a 
solution...


turlututu from Imc Liege


Chekov Feeney a écrit :

> I have to say that the way that the people from .be have dealt with 
> this discussion on this list has very much persuaded me to agree with 
> aic.  Their slippery manner of dealing with the network sends shivers 
> down my spine, and is eerily reminiscent of my history of dealing with 
> authoritarians of the left.  I am also none too enamoured by the way 
> that the other Belgian collectives have approached the situation, but 
> I consider that they suffer from problems that are  _within_ the 
> indymedia spectrum, something that can't be said for 
> authoritarianism.  Observing this discussion upclose for the first 
> time has irritated me enough to contribute to the discussion against 
> my better judgement, in the knowledge that it will almost certainly be 
> fruitless.
>
>> hello,
>> I have a hard time perceiving a request to kick an IMC out of the 
>> network
>> as "resolving the situation". even more so, because the disaffiliation
>> request of imc-liege was based on falsed info (see our previous 
>> e-mails).
>>
>>
>> I believe mediation is very important here, so we can set some things
>> straight, talk through some things, and see where to go from there.  
>>
>
> If the IMC has indeed fallen under the control of an authoritarian 
> sect, then it _is_ very much resolving the situation.
> Remind us again why you think that your imc should have the 
> country-wide domain rather than sharing it through a syndication site?
>
> Remind us too why you think that the question of your belonging to an 
> international network can only be resolved by 'local' mediation and 
> the international network should not have the right to choose its own 
> mediator?  This seems to me to be perfectly preposterous and rather 
> close to George Bush's approach to international agreements.
>
> A few observations on this process from a fairly detached point of 
> view which is unlikely to prove universally popular.
>
> It appears that the desire to disaffiliate belgium is directly 
> proportional to the amount of knowledge that other imc-istas have 
> about the situation.  The other Belgian IMCs, the French and the 
> Swedes are in favour, as well as those Germans who are best informed.  
> On the other hand Cleveland has 'blocked' the disaffiliation.  Am I 
> the only one who thinks that this is the most preposterous situation 
> imaginable?  I am almost certain that both Cleveland and Canarias are 
> far, far less informed about the situation in Belgium than the French 
> or the other Belgians, and are probably unaware of the long and torrid 
> history of this affair, yet we are forced to obey their decision not 
> to disafilliate.  (I mean no disrespect to either of those two IMC's, 
> it is the abstract situation which appalls me.)
>
> In summation, it is glaringly, even staggeringly obvious that our one 
> word approach to decision making, "consensus", is completely 
> inadequate for dealing with decisions on such a scale.  Let's assume 
> for a moment that the charges from the other Belgian indymedias are 
> accurate. In such a large network there will always be at least one 
> IMC which has not followed the course of the dispute and thinks that a 
> bit more mediation should be tried.  It appears that we would allow an 
> authoritarian sect to masquerade as an Indymedia, exploiting our work 
> for their own ends and we would allow them to do it for ever.   In a 
> situation like this there are two things that we can do - disafiliate 
> or not disafiliate - since it is clear that mediation has run its 
> course.  Deciding not to disafilliate is just as much a decision as 
> deciding to disafilliate, yet it only needs a single vote to pass. I 
> find this notion of consensus to be incredibly anti-democratic.  One 
> vote outweights a couple of hundred.  One collective taking a decision 
> forces everybody else to follow that line.
> * end of rant *
>
> Chekov
> 1 of indymedia.ie (very much written in a personal capacity and 
> definitely not representative of imc.ie)
>
> _______________________________________________
> IMC-communication mailing list
> IMC-communication at lists.indymedia.org
> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-communication
>
>


-- 
GNUPGP key 0x9483B325 http://keys.indymedia.org

"turlututu" est le plus long mono-u, ça vous embouche un coin hein !
--