[Imc-communication] re: IMC Germany statement re IMC Belgium

Wed May 18 14:17:48 PDT 2005

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Sorry if this a double post, it did not seem to get through the list
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nederlands onderaan:
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There have been several alternative proposals formulated by different
collectives about the Belgian situation.

As we already formulated in several proposals the Belgium IMC is in
favor of collaboration and mediation to find a workable solution for the
different IMC's in Belgium.
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-April/0415-ab.html
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-April/0429-mt.html

There have been several proposals put forward to come to an end to this
conflict and we feel that they all are valuable.
Thanks to all who have shown their concern and have exerted genuine
effort to understand the sitiation of indymedia in Belgium.

IMC Cleveland proposed:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-April/0427-y8.html
        "We support alternative forms of conflictresolution,
        particularly local mediation.  We hope for a cooperative spirit,
        however if disaffiliation is pursued, we support a fact-finding
        project so that the network may better evaluate the accusations
        being made.  We support postponing any action until network
        imc’s are more involved and informed, and this process can be
        carried out more openly.  We support separate but equal imc’s in
        Belgium until the conflict is resolved.
        "We urge those interested in a syndication site to do so without
        destroying an existing imc project."
We can find ourselves in this proposal.

IMC-canarias proposed
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-May/0504-ao.html
        "It seems to us that the two groups  are doing, each in their
        way, important and useful work, and that they  should be
        capable, amongst themselves and starting now, of seeking a way 
        to, as a minimum, coexist peacefully as fully autonomous
        collectives:  the alternative is, without a doubt, to continue
        to cause damage to the  (human) networks and to the reputations
        of the Indymedia collectives in  Belgium and beyond Belgium."
We also agree with this proposal of imc-canarias and are strongly
opposed to any oprion that is causing further damage to the reputation
of the imc network."

Imc Germany proposed:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-May/0507-go.html
        It is too long to quote.
We also find some valuable ideas and suggestions in that proposal.

A necessary condition for mediation is the consent of all
participants. We feel therefore that it should be reformulated like
this:

1.  Ask all the collectives in belgium individually about their
willingness (and needs) for mediation
2.  Find people who will prepare the mediation setting and might act
(and be accepted) as real-life mediators
3.  Find the "main blocking" points or I would say: The most important
issues that the single imc-collectives want to have discussed (there
doesn't have to be a consensus about this at this time!)
4. The Mediators are collecting the different points of interest and
write a kind of agenda/topics about what will be the first mediation
session about.
5. They ask the single collectives, if they agree to this agende and
modify it, when needed.
5. Find a (neutral) place and a good time for real-time-mediation.
6. Start real-time-mediation:
        a) Story-telling phase (&listen to the other persons opinions)
        b) Looking deeper at the backgrounds of the conflict or emotions
	behindthe conflict (mutual understanding)
        c) Search for possible solutions (brainstorming), may be for the
	first time small ones, but important ones...
        d) Find agreements (small or big ones)...
        f) Look if agreements are fullfilled and when necessary, 
	continue mediation process...

Originally, the German proposal satrted with:

1. Neutralise belgium.indymedia.org first of all, for having all the
imc's involved on the same local level.

A 'neutralized' url through a syndication page, a static page or
whatever, can be the outcome of mediation (we don't exclude that
option) but it should not be the precondition. For one, the issue of
the url was not even mentioned in imc-Liège's disaffiliation request.
Moreover, this proposal was already opposed:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2004-September/0909-nx.html
        "I cannot in good conscience support the taking away of a URL
        used by an existing working IMC collective. I would oppose the
        taking away or reassignment of the URL as long as the
 	collective currently using it are actively updating and working 
	on their site, and working within IMC."

Han liason for imc-belgium

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Er werden in verband met de Belgische situatie verschillende
alternatieve voorstellen geformuleerd.
Zoals we reeds meerdere keren in verschillende voorstellen duidelijk
maakten is het Belgium-imc voor samenwerking en mediation om te komen
tot een werkbare oplossing voor de verschillenden IMC's in België.
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-April/0415-ab.html
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-April/0429-mt.html

Er werden door verschillenden IMC's voorstellen geformuleerd om een
einde te maken aan dit conflict en we denken dat ze allen waardevol
zijn.

IMC Cleveland stelt voor:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-April/0427-y8.html
        "We support alternative forms of conflictresolution,
        particularly local mediation.  We hope for a cooperative spirit,
        however if disaffiliation is pursued, we support a fact-finding
        project so that the network may better evaluate the accusations
        being made.  We support postponing any action until network
        imc’s are more involved and informed, and this process can be
        carried out more openly.  We support separate but equal imc’s in
        Belgium until the conflict is resolved.
        "We urge those interested in a syndication site to do so without
        destroying an existing imc project."
Wij kunnen ons vinden in dit voorstel.

IMC-canarias proposed
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-May/0504-ao.html
        "It seems to us that the two groups  are doing, each in their
        way, important and useful work, and that they  should be
        capable, amongst themselves and starting now, of seeking a way 
        to, as a minimum, coexist peacefully as fully autonomous
        collectives:  the alternative is, without a doubt, to continue
        to cause damage to the  (human) networks and to the reputations
        of the Indymedia collectives in  Belgium and beyond Belgium."
We zijn ook akkoord met dit voorstel van imc-canarias en verzetten ons
tegen elke optie die verder schade berokkend aan de reputaie van IMC
netwerk.

Indymedia Duitsland stelde voor:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-May/0507-go.html
        Het is te lang op te citeren. Toch vinden dat er waardevolle 
	dingen staan in het voorstel.

We denken dat een duidelijk engagement van betrokkenen in een mediation
process een noodzakelijk voorwaarde is, daarom herformuleren we het
voorstel als volgt.

 1.  Ask all the collectives in belgium individually about their
willingness (and needs) for mediation
2.  Find people who will prepare the mediation setting and might act
(and be accepted) as real-life mediators
3.  Find the "main blocking" points or I would say: The most important
issues that the single imc-collectives want to have discussed (there
doesn't have to be a consensus about this at this time!)
4. The Mediators are collecting the different points of interest and
write a kind of agenda/topics about what will be the first mediation
session about.
5. They ask the single collectives, if they agree to this agende and
modify it, when needed.
5. Find a (neutral) place and a good time for real-time-mediation.
6. Start real-time-mediation:
        a) Story-telling phase (&listen to the other persons opinions)
        b) Looking deeper at the backgrounds of the conflict or emotions
	behind the conflict (mutual understanding)
        c) Search for possible solutions (brainstorming), may be for the
	first time small ones, but important ones...
        d) Find agreements (small or big ones)...
        f) Look if agreements are fullfilled and when
	necessary, continue mediation process...

Het Duitse voorstel startte met
1.  Neutralise belgium.indymedia.org first of all, for having all the
imc's involved on the same local level.

En geneutraliseerde url via een syndication website of een statische
pagina of wat dan ook kan het resultaat zijn van mediation (wij sluiten
geen enkel optie uit) maar het kan geen voorwaarde zijn om mediation aan
te vatten.
Bovendien werd een dergelijk voorstel reeds verworpen.
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2004-September/0909-nx.html
         "I cannot in good conscience support the taking away of a URL
         used by an existing working IMC collective. I would oppose the
         taking away or reassignment of the URL as long as the
	 collective currently using it are actively updating and
 	 working on their site, and working within IMC."

han liaison voor IMC-belgium