[Imc-communication] Request to mailing list imc-process rejected

[GarconDuMonde]

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hi,

i will respond to some of the comments in this email. as i am not including
imc-process in this mail, i shall only be writing in english (my preferred
language).

Petros Evdokas wrote:
> TO: imc-process-bounces  AT  lists.indymedia.org, 
> imc-process-owner  AT   lists.indymedia.org

these both go to the same place (the list facilitators of imc-process); by
putting the full email address in your post on a public list, you are also
increasing the potential amount of spam that we might get. thank you.

> English language/ Machine translation Spanish follows below, separated
> by a line of stars such as this: *

i think you have missed the point here.

the aim of having multlingual posts on imc-process is to encourage people to
think of the broader indymedia community, a substantial part of which does *not*
speak english. however, machine-translations are generally not the best and
these are also discouraged: instead, you are advised to take advantage of the
internal indymedia translation facility, translations.indymedia.org.

> ---------
> imc-process-bounces at lists.indymedia.org wrote:

i have cut the text of the mail as there is no need to repeat it again. it is
already on imc-communication adn imc-process-facilitate.

> -----------------
> 
> Thanks for sending me the letter above.
> 
> If you think the letter is of interest to subscribers/ members of
> imc-process, I guess it's your call whether to share it with the list or
> not. That's why we have human  and not electronic moderators and
> administrators, to take the responsibility for decisions. And for the
> repercussions of decisions.

again, i think you are wrong here. we are *facilitators* of imc-process and some
ground rules have been established to ensure that the list is equally open to
all the members of the indymedia community. that is, posts should be via a group
liaison, clearly introduced to the list and identified as such. they should also
be in at least two languages - english or spanish, and another (which may be the
other from english or spanish) - with *human* translations. this will allow time
for local groups to discuss posts to the list and consider them properly, most
likely over a period of a few days. should it not be possible for a local group
to make a translation, they have the opportunity to post to
translations.indymedia.org and ask for help from elsewhere in the network. one
further point is that emails should not be heavily crossposted on different
lists, as this has a negative effect on the continuity of debate.

so, some questions for you:

- - are you the liaison for your local indymedia? you didn't indicate whether you
were or were not...

- - has this post been discussed with the rest of your group, and is a comment
from the group, or is this your own personal opinion?

- - have you made an attempt to get a human translation into a different language?
of course, seeing as you have english already, the other language could be greek!

> I'd encourage you to exercise your judgement, and you can decide if my
> letter should be shared with our colleagues at imc-process or not.

my role - and the role of imc-process facilitators - is not to be a judge, but
to act to facilitate the discussion and consensus of all the liaisons from
various indymedia groups who are on imc-process. if you and your group think
that something is important and needs to be discussed, then i imagine the group
liaison would be concerned enough to write an email and try to get it translated ...

> ---------
> Some relevant readings which are the background for this ongoing
> discussion. All from the imc-process list:
> 
> [IMC-Process] Re: PROPOSAL: transforming imc-process imc-process
> /clarifying consensus
> http://mail.indymedia.org/imc-process/2002-March/002961.html
> 
> [IMC-Process] "Transforming imc-Process" Proposal / Emerging Consensus
> http://mail.indymedia.org/imc-process/2002-April/003045.html
> 
> [IMC-Process] Transforming imc Process
> http://mail.indymedia.org/imc-process/2002-April/003247.html
> 
> [IMC-Process] conflict resolution
> http://archives.lists.indymedia.org/imc-process/2002-June/003531.html


these posts are all old, and discussion has moved on (although, i admit, i have
not the time to reread them again now). the most recent discussion about how
imc-process is facilitated was about a year ago; the final message, posted by
myself on behalf of imc-uk, details how the list should operate:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-process/2005-June/0614-qt.html

i hope this helps your understanding.

- --

love and solidarity,

	--gdm

http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Main/GarconDuMonde

i have a NEW key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 594B97C2
Key fingerprint = 7B70 F22D F275 D111 3A04  F9EE 0E25 4944 594B 97C2



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