[Imc-communication] [Imc] UCIMC: Concern about the direction UC is going

[mark burdett]

hi, we are discussing these issues locally,
but our discussion process is slow and meetings infrequent.

For our part, our principles of unity states that we are volunteer
participants, and before that was written, our "About" page has
always stated that we are an all-volunteer organization.

We do have one subcollective (radio) with voluntary dues.

--mark B./sf bay area imc

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:46:58 -0700, bmedia at riseup.net wrote:
> This eloquent statement on the dangers of bringing the money mindset  
> into indymedia was posted early this month (see below). I am surprised  
> to note that there has been no response at all. I would like to know  
> whether there are others out there who would be interested in  
> addressing this issue through either of the proposals that Deva made?  
> Again, these were:
> 1. noting on the cities list those IMCs which copy the money model (my  
> preference would be a $ symbol on those few sites that do this);
> 2. global choosing an option other than being fiscally sponsored by UC imc.
> 
> Cat
> 
> Quoting deva <drdartist at riseup.net>:
> 
> > In thinking about the feelings and different values and ideas
> > expressed regarding money, paying people, and having a dues paying
> > membership, I am reminded of the environmental movement for forest
> > protection in North America.
> >
> > Whether willingly, or in the legal system, timber representatives sit
> > down with government officials, and environmentalists. Some
> > compromise effort is worked out to protect a percentage of the forest
> > and cut a percentage of the forest. A few years later, the force of
> > greed is back, demanding another compromise. Those who do not wish to
> > compromise are labeled radical extremists and the remaining wild
> > places keep shrinking. At some point, those who want to protect the
> > forest are again supposed to sit and compromise as they discuss the
> > fate of the tiny percentage that is left, yet its fate is already
> > decided because the force of greed itself is never addressed.
> >
> > Money and power control the world. It is nearly everywhere and
> > defining nearly everything. For me, Indymedia is one tiny experiment
> > with another approach. Yet even here, money and its power and allure
> > have come in. Some say we have to embrace the diversity of the
> > network, but what is called diversity is really the encroaching
> > system that is already rooted into everything. The dominant system
> > destroys diversity. Having local indymedias that pay people, collect
> > dues from members and pursue grants from foundations is something
> > already being repeated countless times around the world. It is
> > neither diverse, nor new. Once you are paying people to do
> > bookkeeping, fundraising, and to be treasurer and membership
> > coordinator, all money related positions, you have become a money
> > based organization and more and more time goes into dealing with money.
> >
> > Here in the US, and perhaps elsewhere, the system has become smarter.
> > Rather than just fight against visionary movements, creatives,
> > artists, etc, the system now pays those people/movements money and so
> > works to seduce them and turn them over time. The carrot is more
> > effective than the stick and so more dangerous. Money and the systems
> > it requires is the great divider of people and it has done its work
> > again.
> >
> > The issue of money and how to deal with it is a point of deep
> > conflict in indymedia. We have as collective indymedia, a set of
> > principles of unity, yet we are clearly not united in our principles.
> >
> > Indymedia is a consensus based effort. Now there is enough divergence
> > of view that it is not likely to have consensus on money issues. Does
> > consensus mean that the status quo is perpetually preserved? Is a
> > consensus decision from the past a willing consensus? or at that
> > point an imposed consensus? For example, if 5 people agree to a
> > certain choice, then a year later 2 or 3 of those people no longer
> > see it as a good choice, are they stuck with it unless the other 2
> > change their mind as well?
> >
> > Here in Portland there has been discussion of putting the dollar
> > sign, or dollar sign in a circle/slash (or the monetary symbol for
> > their currency) next to the local imc's on the Portland cities list.
> > The symbols would be linked to a page describing the issues and the
> > choices made by different imc's.
> >
> > One suggestion I have for global is for global indymedia to choose
> > another option than being fiscally sponsored by UC. They have done
> > that job for some years and perhaps it is time for a change and a new
> > approach. There is discussion in Portland for proposing this and I
> > wish to have some feedback if there is interest in such a change.
> >
> > regards,
> > deva
> >
> >
> > version en castellano (spanish)
> >
> > Pensando sobre las sensaciones y diferentes valores e ideas que se
> > expresan en cuanto al dinero, el pago de sueldos, y el pago de una
> > cuota por miembros, estoy recordando el movimiento ambiental por la
> > protecci?n del bosque en Norteam?rica.
> >
> > De comun acuerdo, o bajo el sistema legal, los representantes
> > madereros se sientan con funcionarios del gobierno, y ecologistas. Un
> > cierto esfuerzo de negociaci?n se hace para  proteger un porcentaje
> > del bosque y talar otro porcentaje del bosque. Unos a?os m?s tarde,
> > la fuerte avaricia vuelve, exigiendo otro acuerdo. Aquellos que no
> > desean transar son llamados extremistas radicales y los lugares
> > silvestres restantes  siguen achic?ndose. En cierto punto, los que
> > desean proteger el bosque son otra vez llamados a sentarse y acordar
> > el destino del peque?o porcentaje que queda, aun cuando el destino ya
> > estaba definido porque la fuerza de la avaricia en si mismo nunca se
> > discute.
> >
> > El dinero y el poder controlan el mundo. Est? casi por todas partes y
> > definiendo casi todo. Para m?, Indymedia es un experimento diminuto
> > con otro acercamiento. A?n hasta aqu?, el dinero y su poder y encanto
> > han entrado. *Unos dicen que tenemos que abrazar la diversidad de la
> > red, pero lo que llaman la diversidad es realmente el sistema de
> > usurpaci?n ue se arraiga ya en todo. El sistema dominante destruye la
> > diversidad.* Teniendo indymedias locales que pagan a su gente, toma
> > aportes de los miembros y busca subvenciones de fundaciones es algo
> > ya siendo repetido incontables veces en el mundo entero. Esto ni es
> > diverso, ni nuevo. Una vez que tu est?s pagando gente para hacer la
> > contabilidad, buscar fondos, y ser el tesorero y el coordinador de
> > socios, todas los cargos relacionados a el dinero, te has convertido
> > en una organizaci?n basada en el dinero y el tiempo entra cada vez se
> > va m?s en temas sobre el dinero.
> >
> > Aqu? en EEUU, y quiz?s en otras partes, el sistema se ha hecho m?s
> > inteligente. M?s que la simplemente luchar contra movimientos
> > visionarios, creativos, artistas, etc., el sistema ahora financia
> > aquel dinero de la gente (o movimientos) y trabaja tanto para
> > seducirlos y darlos vuelta con el tiempo. La zanahoria es m?s eficaz
> > que el palo y mucho m?s peligrosa. El dinero y los sistemas que esto
> > requiere son el gran divisor de la gente y esto ha hecho su trabajo
> > otra vez.
> >
> > La cuesti?n del dinero y como tratar con ello es un punto de
> > conflicto profundo en Indymedia. Tenemos como  colectivo indymedia,
> > un sistema de principios de unidad, con todo nos no unen claramente
> > en nuestros principios.
> >
> > Indymedia es un esfuerzo basado en el consenso. Ahora hay bastante
> > puntos de vista divergentes que  probablemente no tengamos acuerdo
> > general sobre cuestiones de dinero. ?Significa el consenso que el
> > status quo  se mantiene permanentemente? ?Es una decisi?n por conseso
> > del pasado un acuerdo general dispuesto?  ?o en ese punto un consenso
> > impuesto?
> >
> > Por ejemplo, si 5 personas acuerdan sobre un tema, luego un a?o
> > despu?s 2 o 3 de esas personas ya no ven como una buena opci?n, est?n
> > ellos atados a eso hasta que las otras 2 personas cambien su parecer
> > tambi?n?
> >
> > Aqu? en Portland ha habido discusi?n de poner el signo de d?lar, o el
> > signo de d?lar en un ciruculo tachado (o el s?mbolo monetario para su
> > dinero) al lado del IMC's local a la lista de ciudades. Los s?mbolos
> > ser?an vinculado a una p?gina que describe las cuestiones y las
> > opciones hechas por cada CMI.
> >
> > Una sugerencia que tengo para la red es para indymedia global para
> > escoger otra opci?n que ser patrocinado fiscalmente por el CMI
> > Urbana. Ellos han hecho por aquel trabajo durante algunos a?os y
> > quiz?s esto es el tiempo para un cambio y un nuevo acercamiento. Hay
> > discusi?n en Portland para proponer esto y deseo tener algunas
> > respuestas  si hay inter?s a tal cambio.
> >
> > saludos,
> > deva
> >
> > (thanks to Libertinus for the translation)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > IMC-communication mailing list
> > IMC-communication at lists.indymedia.org
> > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-communication
> >
> 
> 
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