[Imc-communication] thing that make me hate indymedia

deva drdartist at riseup.net
Fri Sep 1 22:36:02 PDT 2006 

Some new things I discovered by reading the UC-IMC bylaws page.

The official name is
Urbana-Champaign Independent Media Center Foundation

The governing body consists of elected officers including a President  
who are elected by a simple majority vote.

The bylaws may be amended by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of the  
membership present at the annual meeting.

Nowhere in the UC-IMC bylaws is the word consensus used



On Sep 1, 2006, at 7:50 PM, dri wrote:

> Hi,
>
> (pt_br above)
>
>> i also want to clarify something about the principles of unity.  it
>> is my understanding that there is nothing in the principles that say
>> people cannot be paid, but that imcs cannot be for profit.  this was
>> very mindfully crafted at the time and i remember the process.
>
> if an imc has money to pay staff (!) it is a profit money being  
> used cause
> lot's of imcs work hard to get travel expenses for imc meetings to be
> funded.
>
> if an imc is hiring people to raise money then it's has the profit  
> as an
> objective two times - firstly cause there is money available  
> (profit!) to
> pay staff and secondly cause people are being payed to raise more  
> money!
>
> for me that is clearly against the principles of unity.
> (and i gave a suggestion on how to pay people to do boring jobs in my
> previews e-mail on this subject).
>
> peace,
>
> dri
>
> pt_br:
>
> se um cmi tem grana pra pagar gente (!) é um dinheiro vindo de um  
> lucro q
> tá sendo usado pq um monte de cmi trabalha pácas pra pagar viajens pra
> reuniões.
>
> se um cmi tá contratando gente pra arrecadar mais grana então é um
> objetivar por lucro duas vezes, primeiro porque tem grana sobrando pra
> pagar gente pra trabalhar (lucro!), segundo porque as pessoas são  
> pagas
> pra arrecadar mais grana!
>
> pra mim isso é claramente contra os principios de unidade.
> (e dei sugestão de como driblar isso no meu primeiro e-mail sobre esse
> assunto).
>
>
>>
>> given how volatile email can get, i would love to see this discussion
>> be another topic for an irc meeting.  where people can "talk" in an
>> online space in real time.
>>
>> love
>> sheri
>>
>> On Aug 31, 2006, at 7:00 PM, deva wrote:
>>
>>> I have heard all this sort of argument before. As I said in my
>>> previous email, I believe it is almost exclusively in the US where
>>> imc people seek to pay themselves. Is it a coincidence that the
>>> most money and power hungry nation creates people who do not want
>>> to do the volunteer work? How sorry for us!
>>>
>>> One thing I notice in your words
>>>
>>> 1. Demand adherence to the mission
>>> 2. Tightly define job descriptions with clearly delineated
>>> responsibilities and
>>> privileges
>>> 3. Enforce transparency
>>> 4. Require accountability
>>> 5. and above all, prevent self-serving accumulation of power
>>>
>>> Here is the sort of language you say is needed to counteract the
>>> negative effect of money. All repressive terms. If this is what is
>>> needed to deal with money, maybe is better not to go that way
>>>
>>> When the money comes in, the language of the heart recedes.
>>>
>>> I know UC-IMC has chosen its path, and nothing will change that
>>> now, so really there is little point for discussing it. Various
>>> corporate entities also have great rationalizations for all the
>>> things they do. I agree with Libertinus and the words of beauty and
>>> passion he wrote.
>>>
>>> deva
>>> portland-imc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2006, at 9:22 PM, Randall Cotton wrote:
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "deva" <drdartist at riseup.net>
>>>> To: <imc-communication at lists.indymedia.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:23 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Imc-communication] thing that make me hate indymedia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> : I don't want to see every imc the same. Experimentation and
>>>> diversity
>>>> : is good as we all try to create a more balanced and sane human
>>>> society.
>>>> :
>>>> : Seeing this however, does make me wonder. Why is it the work
>>>> dealing
>>>> : with money, which earns people money? We live in a society where
>>>> : banks and bankers control everything and where money is above all
>>>> : else. It does trouble me when I see the appearance of this same
>>>> : pattern.
>>>>
>>>> I can see how it would be easy, perhaps even natural, to associate
>>>> money with
>>>> evil. It seems to me, though, that the evil of capitalism is not
>>>> that it
>>>> involves the use of money, but that it strongly tends to victimize
>>>> some for the
>>>> benefit others. In particular, the accumulation of one's own
>>>> wealth is
>>>> worshipped as the highest value, trumping any consideration of how
>>>> such efforts
>>>> might victimize others. And, of course, the worst manifestations
>>>> of this are the
>>>> goliath corporations, designed to be soulless juggernauts in
>>>> pursuit of
>>>> ever-greater profits by any means necessary, damn the welfare of
>>>> anyone or
>>>> anything else.
>>>>
>>>> But to me it isn't the exchange of money that should be shunned.
>>>> Money is just a
>>>> tool that can be used for good or bad purposes. It's possible to
>>>> exchange money
>>>> for work or goods without victimizing anyone. Indeed, I would
>>>> maintain it's
>>>> possible to do so with a resulting benefit for all parties and
>>>> even the greater
>>>> common good, if one is mindful about it.
>>>>
>>>>  Does the UC-IMC also pay anyone for media work? Or is it
>>>> : only the money people earning money? Of 5 jobs listed, nothing
>>>> : relates to media.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that if the infrastructure is there to provide the
>>>> convenient
>>>> opportunity for folks in our community to create media, then they
>>>> will be only
>>>> too happy to take advantage of that opportunity. We need not pay
>>>> them to do so.
>>>> That's certainly been the pattern we've experienced with our
>>>> newspaper and radio
>>>> station. But to provide this service to the community, certain
>>>> difficult (even
>>>> tedious and demanding) tasks need to be performed on an ongoing
>>>> basis and one
>>>> might want to pay a small amount of money in exchange for that  
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>> I think perhaps the real danger in creating paid positions at an
>>>> IMC (or any
>>>> organization, I guess) is the accumulation of power (and its
>>>> nearly inevitable
>>>> subsequent abuse) by individuals who hold those paid positions. In
>>>> particular,
>>>> there is a tendency for people to act in ways that preserve or
>>>> enhance their
>>>> ongoing payment even when it goes against the mission of the
>>>> organization
>>>> (perhaps even victimizing some in the process). It seems to me
>>>> that to counter
>>>> that, one must have a clearly stated mission along with well-
>>>> crafted rules that:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Demand adherence to the mission
>>>> 2. Tightly define job descriptions with clearly delineated
>>>> responsibilities and
>>>> privileges
>>>> 3. Enforce transparency
>>>> 4. Require accountability
>>>> 5. and above all, prevent self-serving accumulation of power
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, things can go downhill toward a situation where those
>>>> who are being
>>>> paid and are in control work to preserve and enhance that control
>>>> and payment
>>>> above other considerations including the original mission. This,
>>>> it seems to me,
>>>> is poison particularly for any organization purporting to be a
>>>> community
>>>> resource.
>>>>
>>>> But perhaps there are other ways of thinking about this (I'd be
>>>> interested in
>>>> hearing them).
>>>>
>>>> R
>>>>
>>>> : You ask what to do if nobody steps forward to volunteer. Do you
>>>> just
>>>> : let it fall apart? The thing is we make choices that define later
>>>> : choices. It is the inevitable logic of capital that leads down a
>>>> : certain road where each choice makes sense but the final
>>>> destination
>>>> : is not where one was aiming to be.
>>>> :
>>>> : UC-IMC has gone in its own direction, quite different from other
>>>> : IMCs. I do not think any other IMC has a dues paying  
>>>> membership and
>>>> : paid staff. That is very far from the radical vision that
>>>> inspired me
>>>> : to get involved with indymedia work. So I have no ideas to  
>>>> suggest.
>>>> :
>>>> : Regards,
>>>> : deva
>>>> : portland-imc
>>>> :
>>>> :
>>>> : On Aug 30, 2006, at 2:57 PM, Randall Cotton wrote:
>>>> :
>>>> : > Yes, this does seem at odds with what one would expect the
>>>> mission
>>>> : > of an IMC,
>>>> : > but I understand the UCIMC does operate as the only 501(c)3  
>>>> non-
>>>> : > profit IMC,
>>>> : > providing tax-free funding for the benefit of other IMCs
>>>> (which not
>>>> : > only
>>>> : > conserves our own funds, but it prevents funds going to the
>>>> current
>>>> : > administration's empire-building agenda). In addition, we own a
>>>> : > hulking building
>>>> : > (see http://www.ucimc.org/newswire/display_any/34385 ) that
>>>> houses
>>>> : > a radio
>>>> : > station, a newspaper, a performance venue, and serves as an
>>>> : > increasingly
>>>> : > bustling hub for media and arts focused on social and economic
>>>> : > justice. To keep
>>>> : > all this going, it would seem to me that certain things
>>>> absolutely
>>>> : > have to get
>>>> : > done. Keeping books and records, maintaining/renting the  
>>>> building
>>>> : > and organizing
>>>> : > fundraising/donations.
>>>> : >
>>>> : > What if no one steps forward to do these things out of the
>>>> kindness
>>>> : > of their
>>>> : > heart? How does one address that? Do we just let it all fall
>>>> apart?
>>>> : >
>>>> : > I contribute as a member to UCIMC, though I'm currently barely
>>>> : > involved as a
>>>> : > volunteer. I don't claim to know the answers and I'm open to be
>>>> : > educated. What
>>>> : > are your ideas for addressing this?
>>>> : >
>>>> : > R
>>>> : >
>>>> : > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> : > From: "deva" <drdartist at riseup.net>
>>>> : > To: <imc-communication at lists.indymedia.org>
>>>> : > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:15 PM
>>>> : > Subject: Re: [Imc-communication] thing that make me hate
>>>> indymedia
>>>> : >
>>>> : >
>>>> : > : Interesting also that of the 5 paying jobs, not one of  
>>>> them has
>>>> : > : anything to do with making media and 4 of them have to do  
>>>> with
>>>> : > making
>>>> : > : money
>>>> : > :
>>>> : > : deva
>>>> : > :
>>>> : > :
>>>> : > :
>>>> : > : On Aug 30, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Libertinus wrote:
>>>> : > :
>>>> : > : > one. found this kind of thing
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > http://www.ucimc.org/mod/info/display/jobs/index.php
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > Libertinus ______________________
>>>> : > : > http://www.flickr.com/photos/libertinus/
>>>> : > : > http://www.fotolog.net/libertino
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : >
>>>> : > : > _______________________________________________
>>>> : > : > IMC-communication mailing list
>>>> : > : > IMC-communication at lists.indymedia.org
>>>> : > : > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc- 
>>>> communication
>>>> : > :
>>>> : > : _______________________________________________
>>>> : > : IMC-communication mailing list
>>>> : > : IMC-communication at lists.indymedia.org
>>>> : > : http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-communication
>>>> : >
>>>> : > _______________________________________________
>>>> : > IMC-communication mailing list
>>>> : > IMC-communication at lists.indymedia.org
>>>> : > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-communication
>>>> :
>>>> : _______________________________________________
>>>> : IMC-communication mailing list
>>>> : IMC-communication at lists.indymedia.org
>>>> : http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-communication
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> IMC-communication mailing list
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>>>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-communication
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IMC-communication mailing list
>>> IMC-communication at lists.indymedia.org
>>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-communication
>>
>> Sheri
>>
>> "...and the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more
>> painful than the risk it took to blossom." -- Anais Nin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> IMC-communication mailing list
>> IMC-communication at lists.indymedia.org
>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-communication
>>
>
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