[Imc-communication] (EN)(ES)UCIMC: Concern about advertisements for Giga-$ non-free software companies

[stacy at cat.org.au]

(EN) Hi all,

I agree that it is unfortunate this discussion devolved into a flame  
war, and diverted it from the real issue at hand.  I also agree that  
the people who do the work usually make the decisions.  But I don't  
agree that this always results in the best decisions.

The thing I really loved about indymedia was the fact that you really  
don't need a big bureaucracy, lots of money, or property to run a  
successful one.  So implying that all those things are necessary to  
'keep us afloat' is disturbing to me.  They may be necessary to keep  
the chosen structure of UCIMC afloat, but in terms of the larger  
network, I fear that they will do more harm than good in the long term.

As an example, no money has been distributed to the collectives for a  
couple of years now (the Brasil money just went thru the global  
account, but was donated directly to them).  Money donated to the  
global account was supposed to benefit collectives in the global  
south.  I'm sure that there are plenty of projects that could benefit  
from that money, but none have applied.  The reasons for this could be  
many, but I'm sure they all involve a wariness of the hoops they must  
jump through to get it.  As an example, apparently you now have to  
give your hoome address and the name and address of your employer in  
order to receive an international money transfer.

So this money has not actually been to the benefit of the network, but  
it has helped to build a bureacratic entity in Urbana Champagne which  
represents the entire network with regard to finances.

I am personally very disturbed by the idea that this situation can be  
allowed to progress.  I would like to see the money which was donated  
to the network, being distributed to the network, not sit in a bank  
account, bolstering another bureaucracy of the global north.   
Unfortunately, my attempts to do so have been blocked, with no way  
forward proposed to replace it.

So, I have now retreated back to working exclusively on local indy  
collectives, and lost faith in the ability of the global collectives  
to function.

Stacy
imc-arizona
imc-sydney

(ES) Hola a tod at s,

Estoy de acuerdo que este discusion desfortunamente bajo a una guerra  
de palabras, y ahora no discutimos el asunto real.  Tambien estoy de  
acuerdo que la gente que haga el trabajo usualmente hagan los  
decisiones.  Pero no estoy de acuerdo que este resulta en los  
decisiones mejores.

Lo que me gusta de indymedia era que no necessita burocracia grande,  
mucho dinero, o propiedad para organizar un collectivo exitoso.   
Entonces, para decir que estas cosas son necessitos para mantenernos,  
me molesta mucho.  Quizas estos cosas son necessitos para la estuctura  
escojido de UCIMC, pero para la red en general, tengo miedo que van a  
lastimarnos mas que ayudar.

Por ejemplo, nada de dinero han dado a los collectivos hace unos anos.  
  (el dinero para Brasil pasa por la cuenta, pero estaba donado  
directamente a ell at s)  Dinero que estaba donado a la cuenta mundial  
intentaba para beneficiar los collectivos de la Sur Mundial.  Estoy  
seguro que hay muchos proyectos que puede usar este dinero, pero  
ningun se lo pidieron.  Los motivos para este serian muchos, pero  
estoy seguro que todos involucran tener miedo de los procesos que  
tengan que pasar para ganarlo.  Por ejemplo, ahora, una persona tiene  
que dar su direccion personal, y el nombre y dirrecion de su empleador  
para recibir dinero mandado internacionalmente.

Entonces, este dinero no es una beneficia al red, pero assiste en  
crecer una cosa burocratica en Urbana Champagne que representa todo  
del red en asuntos de financias.

Me enoja la idea que este situacion sigue adelante.  Queria ver el  
dinero que recibio la red, distribuido a la red, no parado en una  
cuenta apoyando una mas burocracia del Norte Mundial.   
Desafortunatamente, yo trate hacerlo, pero fue bloqueado, con ningun  
sugestion para processo alternativo.

Entonces yo regrese a trabajar con los collectivos locales, y perdi fe  
de la poder de los collectivos mundiales para funcionar.

Stacy
imc-arizona
imc-sydney


Quoting Wendy Edwards <wedwards at uiuc.edu>:

> Actually, Sascha's been far more polite than I would have been.
> The Finance people have gradually developed a set of procedures
> to perform the tasks that allow us to remain afloat.  Although
> we're willing to listen to suggestions, I really don't see
> why we need to spend time and energy defending ourselves.  To
> be honest, the people who do the work in activists groups
> generally get to make the decisions, and that's what's happened
> here.
>
> Wendy
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2006 at 05:01:20PM -0700, deva wrote:
>> I don't know if you are an asshole, or have some sort of vendetta
>> against me, but I'm telling you you misread my post. I did not accuse
>> anyone of lying. Go read it again and figure it out.
>>
>> Your idea of engaging civilly and respectfully means subtle barbs and
>> attacks with a facade of pleasantry. Maybe you learn this behavior in
>> the corporate world, but I am not buying it.
>>
>> deva
>>
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2006, at 11:43 AM, Sascha Meinrath wrote:
>>
>> >deva wrote:
>> >>Do note that you misread my post. But nice try at going on the
>> >>attack to deflect criticism. deva
>> >
>> >Deva, I'm not sure if you are simply trolling or if you have some
>> >sort of vendetta against the UCIMC.  You said, "I don't think you
>> >even bothered to look at the options boud suggested. You may as
>> >well have just saved all the words you wrote and said 'We are not
>> >interested in exploring such options at this time.'"  I'm telling
>> >you that I was the one who looked at these options and that you
>> >should apologize for suggesting otherwise.
>> >
>> >This isn't about deflecting criticism, it's about engaging civilly
>> >and respectfully.
>> >
>> >--Sascha
>> >
>> >>On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Sascha Meinrath wrote:
>> >>>deva wrote:
>> >>>>On Sep 18, 2006, at 2:00 PM, Mike Lehman wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>I do not know whether any of the free software packages you
>> >>>>>mention were
>> >>>>>available when we made the decision to use said software was
>> >>>>>made six
>> >>>>>years ago.
>> >>>>So you did not  investigate alternatives back then? or you were
>> >>>>not around then?
>> >>>
>> >>>We did investigate alternatives and made the decision, based on
>> >>>what we needed, to go with Quickbooks.  We had, in fact, started
>> >>>with Quicken (which I was familiar with and had an extra copy
>> >>>of).  We wanted to then go to a free and open source version, but
>> >>>none did the type of classed accounting that we needed.  Over the
>> >>>years we have looked for free open source alternatives every time
>> >>>we've had to upgrade our accounting software (the last time being
>> >>>in late 2003 when we switched to Quickbooks 2004 Pro).  I am
>> >>>certain that the next time we upgrade we'll do the same search
>> >>>and evaluation and, if a FOSS alternative is available, go with
>> >>>that over Quickbooks.
>> >>>
>> >>>>> Anyway, we now have six years of financial
>> >>>>>data that would need to be converted to something else in order to
>> >>>>>utilize freeware, assuming it is even appropriate. We have
>> >>>>>plenty of
>> >>>>>work to do without adding a large burden to achieve a result of
>> >>>>>very
>> >>>>>limited meaning.
>> >>>>I don't think you even bothered to look at the options boud
>> >>>>suggested. You may as well have just saved all the words you
>> >>>>wrote and said "We are not interested in exploring such options
>> >>>>at this time"
>> >>>
>> >>>I was the one who did these searches and I think you owe Mike and
>> >>>the UCIMC an apology for claiming that folks were lying.
>> >>>
>> >>>--Sascha
>> >
>> >--
>> >Sascha Meinrath
>> >Executive Director  *  Principal          *  President
>> >CUWiN              *** The Ethos Group   *** Acorn Active Media
>> >CUWireless.Net      *  EthosWireless.com  *  AcornActiveMedia.com
>> >
>>
>
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>
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