[Imc-communication] Venezuela-Centro & Caracas/Valencia: GEOGRAPHY; TRANSPARENCY/OPEN PUBLISHING/OPEN EDITING; SOLIDARITY

[boud]

(fr) (certains points concret en Français en bas)

(en)
hi andypie,

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, andypie wrote:

> What is the substance of the objection to  recognition?

As i understand it, the substance of IMC Venezuela's objection is:

* The big city collectives (IMC Venezuela - Caracas/Valencia) are
upset that the countryside/small towns collective (IMC Venezuela
Centro) has said that they (the big city collectives) are not as open,
participatory etc. as an indymedia collective ought to be (e.g. for
centre column feature decisions).

* In the interests of collective National Unity, the countryside
collective should not manage a website independent of the national
website.

* IMC Venezuela wants more debate (but apparently did not accept the
invitation made four months ago to participate in the initial public
meeting to create IMC Venezuela Centro:
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/cmi-venezuela/2007-September/0913-t3.html )

Disclaimer: since IMC Venezuela Centro asked for some help from me in
getting organised and technically, i'm not totally neutral in this,
since i have been helping them.


Of course, you can read IMC Venezuela's points in their own words here
in Spanish:
http://venezuela.indymedia.org/es/2007/10/11048.shtml
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/new-imc/2007-October/1018-y4.html

or a rough French translation:
- fr: https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/CmiVenezuelaCentroCmiVe071017fr

Or you can see the two points that ana chose as the most substantial
(points 1 and 7):
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-communication/2008-January/0112-cs.html

Here's a slightly fuller translation of point 7:

   7. The Collectives of IMC Venezuela, which are made of different
   social organisations, propose and repeat our invitation to all
   communities or social organisations that instead of creating new web
   pages, that different collectives are created in the different
   regions of the country which will contribute to the consolidation of
   IMC Venezuela.



Anyway, i've put below some concrete points on geography;
transparency/open publishing/open editing; and solidarity as i
understand them. (en) + (fr)


(en)
GEOGRAPHICAL SITUATION

It seems to me that the situation is partly a geographical problem -
the groups in the two big cities Caracas and Valencia from IMC
Venezuela have expressed their concerns about IMC Venezuela Centro
("interior" Venezuela), in which mostly people from countryside towns
participate (in the states of Portuguesa, Lara, Trujillo, Zulia,
Districto Federal, Monagas, La Guajira, Tachira, Miranda and Merida)

- es: http://venezuela.indymedia.org/es/2007/10/11048.shtml
        http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/new-imc/2007-October/1018-y4.html

- fr: https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/CmiVenezuelaCentroCmiVe071017fr

- es: https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/CmiVenezuelaCentroPrincipiosdeUnidad

[no english, sorry]



TRANSPARENCY, OPEN PUBLICATION + OPEN EDITING

There are also some suggestions that the big city collective is rather
Chavist and the countryside collective is mostly anarchist. In the situation
on their web pages, it seems difficult to deny the IMC Venezuela Centro 
is transparent and uses not only open publishing, but also open editing:


- every moderator action is publicly logged - the log is accessible
with a single click in the left-hand column of the home page -

     "Moderation Log" - http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org/moderation

- the list of people with an account, showing who is a moderator, is 
available with a single click in the left-hand column of the home page

     "MEMBERS" - http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org/moderation/who_all

- the central column is often in a wiki mode : many of the centre column
articles are openly editable by *anyone* who makes an account, e.g.

http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org/123
http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org/856
http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org/304

- decisions about putting articles in the centre column are made
collectively by everyone who has created an account on the site,
rather than by a limited editorial group



SOLIDARITY BETWEEN THE TWO COLLECTIVES

On the home page of IMC Venezuela Centro
http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org  there's an automatic feed
of centre column articles (features) from IMC Venezuela - i.e. 
the titles of those articles with links to the originals are
published.

This type of solidarity by IMC Venezuela (Caracas/Valencia) towards IMC
Venezuela Centro has not yet been implemented, it seems.

A precedent for this type of solidarity is that the RSS/RDF feeds
between IMC Manila and IMC Quezon City were done between the two 
philippino imcs which had difficulty cooperating.




(fr)
SITUATION GÉOGRAPHIQUE

Il me semble que la situation soit en partie un problème géographique
- les groupes des deux grandes villes de Caracas et de Valence du CMI
Vénézuéla ont exprimé leurs soucis concernant le CMI Vénézuéla Centro
(Vénézuéla « de l'intérieur »), dans lequel participent les gens de la
province (dans les états de Portuguesa, Lara, Trujillo, Zulia,
Districto Federal, Monagas, La Guajira, Tachira, Miranda et Merida)

- es: http://venezuela.indymedia.org/es/2007/10/11048.shtml
        http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/new-imc/2007-October/1018-y4.html

- fr: https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/CmiVenezuelaCentroCmiVe071017fr

- es: https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/CmiVenezuelaCentroPrincipiosdeUnidad



TRANSPARENCE, PUBLICATION OUVERTE + ÉDITION OUVERTE

Il y a aussi des suggestions que le collectif des grandes villes soit
plutôt chaviste et celui de la province plutôt anarchiste. Dans la
pratique sur les pages ouaibbes, il me semble difficile à nier que le CMI
Vénézuéla Centro soit transparent et utilise pas seulement la publication
ouverte, mais aussi l'édition ouverte :

- chaque action de modération est publiquement loggué - le log est
accessible avec une seule clique dans la colonne de gauche de la page
d'acccueil -

    « Log de Modération » - http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org/moderation

- la liste des gens avec un compte, montrant qui est modérateur-rice
est disponible à partir d'une seule clique dans la colonne de gauche de la
page d'acccueil -

    « MEMBRES » - http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org/moderation/who_all

- colonne centrale souvent en wiki : nombreux articles de la colonne
centrale sont ouvertement éditables par *chacun-e* qui se fait un
compte, ex.

http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org/123
http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org/856
http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org/304

- la décision pour mettre les articles dans la colonne centrale est
faite collectivement et publiquement par tous les gens qui se sont
fait un compte sur le site, plutôt que par une équipe éditoriale
restreinte



SOLIDARITÉ ENTRE LES DEUX COLLECTIFS

Sur la page d'accueil du site du CMI Vénézuéla Centro
http://venezuela-centro.axxs.org  il y a un feed automatique des
articles de la colonne centrale (les features) du CMI Vénézuéla
(Caracas/Valence) - c.a.d. les titres de ceux-ci avec des liens vers
l'original sont publiés.

Une telle solidarité du CMI Vénézuela (Caracas/Valence) vers CMI 
Vénézuéla Centro ne se fait pas encore, il me semble.

Un précédent pour ce genre de solidarité est que les feeds RSS/RDF
entre le CMI Manila et le CMI Quezon City ont été faits entre les deux
cmis philippins qui avaient du mal à s'entendre.




liberty, horizontalidad, solidarity
boud