[Imc-communication] [IMC-Process] [EN/FR] APPLICATION DEADLINE (new-imc) IMC Venezuela-Centro 24 jan 5:00pm GMT

[ana]

Castellano debajo.

Summary: This application deadline was only sent to process and not
communication as well so, formally, is not valid. Also, it was already
agreed between Venezuela Centro and Venezuela CMI that they would have a
meeting on the matter and would come back with conclusions of that
meetnig. We are waiting for that.

Resumen: Esta solicitud de fecha tope ha sido enviada solo a process y
no a comunicacion tambien, por lo que, por defecto de forma, no es
valida. Tambien, fue aceptado por Venezuela Centro y Venezuela CMI que
iban a tener una reunion sobre esto y volverian con las concusiones de
tal reunion y estamos esperandolas.

======================

Hi all,

I am based in london, uk, used to be a moderator on this list and now
I'm just a volunteer in new-imc group, i've helped a few imcs become imcs.

[en] I already sent a summary of what had happened, to communication and new-imc lists, but here it goes again. 

The new-imc process is outlined in the wiki but basically, any group that wants to become an imc gets in touch with new-imc group, who "allocates" a "liaison" between that group and new-imc. the liaison presents the group to new-imc with a deadline of 3 days and, once passed with no objections, is presented to the lists: process and communication with a deadline of 7 days. discussion happens in communication because process is low traffic to encourage participation by people with low connectivity too.

With Venezuela Centro, Venezuela CMI, objected to the creation of Venezuela Centro ImC for various reasons that they published and that summarised, in my opinion, in that  venezuela centro was a reaction to bad actions of venezuela cmi, and venezuela cmi would not accept accusations of wrong doing (this is very very summarised).

The new-imc group knew about this objection by Venezuela IMC, by an email sent from some one from imc brasil (this caused a bit of confusion too)  - the objection was not made by imc brasil, the objection was by imc venezuela.

The proposal by imc venezuela was, to my understanding, that the welcome process of venezuela centro would be stopped until both groups, venezuela cmi, and venezuela centro, would meet and discuss this.

I tried to explain this in new-imc and communication asking for the process to stay still in new-imc, since the objection happened within the 3 day deadline in new-imc list.

Then joe ttx sent an email to communication saying that the discussion should happen in communication and not new-imc. Personally I see no major difference whether the discussion should happen in new-imc or communcation lists since both are open and every one can subscribe. But I do think the process should be STOPPED - not blocked, but stopped, until they meet and send the conclusions of that meeting to new-imc, communication or wherever they want. But they should be left alone until they communicate with us.

When I sent that kind of summary, I also sent mails to the list of venezuela centro and
venezuela cmi:

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/cmi-venezuela/2008-January/0112-b4.html
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/cmi-venezuela-centro/2008-January/0114-h8.html

and, apart from thanks for the explanation, there was no answer, private or public. So in my opinion this process is a bit stuck until they explain ...

Now I see that joe.ttx at indymedia.org has sent a new deadline, but I think this doesn't respect the process already agreed (although venezuela centro has not quite responded on lists). In my opinion we should respect this process which, although it is unusual, as a member of the new-imc group, I think is absolutely normal - objections need to be discussed, and, if it is by the parts involved, much the better.

Also for the sake of process and respect for people on this list with low connectivity, if people feel we should continue with a discussion, it should happen in imc-communication.

I am no liaison and I don't want to force any block or push for any decision, I am only trying to explain what the process is as I understand it with the benefit that I have been knowing this process for some years now, I hope it is clear and useful.

All the best to all imc liaisons ...

ana

=======================

[es]

Hola a tod x s,

Estoy en Londres, uk, antes fui una moderadora de esta lista y ahora soy voluntaria de new-imc, he ayudado a algunos cmis a hacerse cmis.

Ya mandé una especie de resumen de lo que habia pasado, pero lo pongo aqui ahora también ... El proceso de new-imc esta explicado en la wiki pero resumidas: un grupo quiere ser de imc. se presenta a new-imc, que les "pone" un liaison o encargadillo de comunicaciones entre new-imc y el grupo. El liaison presenta al grupo a new-imc con una deadline (fecha tope) de 3 dias y una vez pasada, sin objeciones, pasa a las listas process y communication con una fecha tope de 7 dias. La discusion se tiene en la lista communication porque la de process es baja en trafico para que haya mas gente, tambien si no tiene mucha conectividad, dispuesta a recibir los mails.

Con Venezuela Centro, Venezuela CMI objetó a la creacion de Venezuela Centro por varias razones que publicaron y que se resumian, en mi opinion, en que venezuela centro era una reaccion a malas acciones de venezuela cmi, y venezuela cmi no aceptaba acusaciones de que hubieran obrado mal (esto es muy, muy resumido). New-imc conocio esta objecion por parte de Venezuela Centro por un mail que mando alguien de imc brasil a la lista new-imc (esto causó bastante confusion tambien) - la objecion no fue hecha por cmi brasil, si no pro cmi venezuela.

La propuesta era, segun mi entender, que se parara el proceso de bienvenida de venezuela centro hasta que tuvieran una reunion, los dos grupos, venezuela cmi, y venezuela centro.

Yo intenté explicar esto en las listas new-imc y communication, pidiendo que el proceso se parara en new-imc, porque la objecion se hizo dentro del periodo de 3 dias en la lista new-imc.

Luego joe ttx mando un mail a communication diciendo que la discusion deberia ocurrir en communication y no en mew-imc.Personalmente no veo mayor diferencia si la discusion ocurre en new-imc que en imc-communication, puesto que ambas son abiertas y cualquiera que quiera apuntarse a esas listas puede. Pero si que pienso que el proceso deberia PARARSE  - no bloquearse, sino pararse, hasta que los dos grupos tengan su reunion y manden las conclusiones de esa reunion a new-imc , o comunication, donde quieran, pero se les deberia dejar que resuelvan sus diferencias hasta qeu se comuniquen con nosotros.

Cuando mande esa especie de resumen, tambien mande emails a las lista de venezuela centro
y de venezuela cmi:

http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/cmi-venezuela/2008-January/0112-b4.html
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/cmi-venezuela-centro/2008-January/0114-h8.html

y, aparte de agradecimientos a la explicacion, no hubo ninguna respuesta ni en publico ni en privado. Por lo que en mi opinion esta simplemente estancado y ahi se debe quedar
hasta que nos expliquen ...

Ahora veo que joe.ttx at indymedia.org ha mandado una deadline a la lista process, esto es en mi opinion no respeta el proceso que los dos grupos han acordado (o al menos eso parece, aunque venezuela centro no ha respondido en listas).

En mi opinion deberiamos respetar este proceso que, aunque inusual, a mi, como miembro del grupo new-imc me parece totalmente normal - las objeciones deben hablarse, y si es entre las partes afectadas, tanto mejor.

Tambien por respeto al proceso y a la gente en esta lista que tiene poca conectividad, si hay gente que piense que habria que continuar con la discusion, deberia seguirse en imc-communication.

Yo no soy liason y no quiero ni forzar ni bloquear ninguna decision, solo estoy tratando de explicar el proceso como lo entiendo y con el beneficio de que lo he ido conociendo en algunos años, y espero que sea claro y util.

Los mejores deseos para todos los liaisons de cmis...

ana


toya at riseup.net wrote:
> hi, this application arrived today the 25, and the deadline was
> yesterday...the 24th....
> I take the 'blame' in here as I am part of the admin group of the
> imc-process list. It was probably stop on the moderation, I am really busy
> this days and couldn't check any of that. I ask sorry already for not
> follow with it, but now I am not sure how to pass it to Brasil network, is
> this already pass? or should we set a new deadline for it?
> Joe can you check with imc venezuela centro?
> thanks
> toya
>
> oi, esse email chegou hoje dia 25, e o prazo para a proposta era pra
> ontem, dia 24...
> Eu assumo a 'culpa' nisso porque sou parte do grupo que administra essa
> lista imc-process. Provavelmente estava parado na moderacao, eu estou
> muito ocupada durante esses dias para conseguir acompanhar tudo isso. Eu
> peco desculpas por nao ter acompanhando isso, mas agora eu nao sei como
> devo repassar esse email para a rede Brasil, jah passou o prazo da
> proposta? ou a gente deveria criar um novo prazo para ela?
> Joe, voce poderia verificar com o pessoal do cmi venezuela centro?
> obrigada,
> toya
>
>