[Imc-communication] So, just who is this "Sofia JarrinT"? (Some quick observations)
Jay
idiot at jaysand.com
Wed Nov 12 06:15:05 PST 2008
Hi imc-communication,
I just had a moment to catch up with this
discussion. For the most part it has been civil,
without personal accusations or attacks. Let's
please keep focus on the issues at hand.
My sense of what happened here is that a number
of dedicated Indymedia drupal techs, recognizing
the need for a more formal Drupal IMC code
foundation, caught wind of the Knight grant
possibility a couple weeks before the initial
proposal deadline and decided to scramble to go
for it because of an honest interest in
improving the network. They communicated with
several drupal people from several IMCs around
the world and got something in just before the
deadline. In most non-indymedia contexts this in
itself would be a accomplishment.
The twist here is that the group that put in the
application was not aware of global indymedia
communication structures, the "culture" of
communication that happens in indymedia global
discussions (volumes of discussion required to
come to consensus), and a whole bunch of issues
regarding payment that people who have been
slogging through Indymedia work since the last
milennium (it sometimes feels even longer) have
discussed again and again . They also weren't
working in tandem with the imc-cms and imc-tech
lists, nor aware of the intricate history with
the Ford Foundation application, which is
essential to understanding the responses of some
IMCs, especially those from Argentina.
I don't sense ill-will here in the group that
made the application and I hope none
develops. Indymedia's global decision-making
culture and structures, or the real lack thereof,
are not easy to grasp, even by people who have been involved for years.
As Sofia has indicated, if the group had known
the perils of putting in a grant application that
suggested they were applying for money for the
whole Indymedia network they would have been more
careful with their language.
That's not to say we all would have been
supportive of any groups within the network
applying to Knight for money, which is a real
issue in itself, or that Drupal techs applying
for money outside of the imc-cms discussions
would have been good, but if that had been the
case we would be having a slightly different discussion.
Two strains of further discussion seem to be
coming out of this. First, despite the
thoughtful and thorough opinions expressed on
this list, which many of the same people express
just as thoughtfully each time the issue of
payment comes up, we do have substantial
disagreements in the network about whether or not
people should accept payment for any indymedia
work, and, if so, from which sources. As Nick
points out, we decided many months ago to
communicate with IMCs throughout the network to
move toward a formal statement on payment through
the consulta and the imc-payment list.
Knowing indymedia, reaching an agreeable
statement on payment could take forever, but at
least there is a structure in place through which
we can move forward if we choose.
Second, the question has come up here a few times
whether we can be more creative in assuring that
IMCs sufficiently share tech work. We clearly
have to be. Tech knowledge and the availability
of tech volunteers is so essential to the health
of local IMCs that many haven't gotten off the
ground or fail primarily due to technical concerns.
This discussion could spur some soul-searching
throughout the network, on imc-tech but not
exclusively, about how we can share the technical
load with local IMCs that don't have tech savvy
in a way that adavnces our work, whether this
involves paying anyone for anything or
not. Clearly some local IMCs have a problem
finding sufficient tech help. If an IMC can't
get its media-making work out because their web
site is always in the shop, I can see how it will
resort to desperate measures (like applying for
grants :) to solve that problem. As Cat
suggests, we certainly haven't exhausted all
potential solutions, and, being that in general
we're pretty smart people, we should certainly give that more of a try.
Jay
At 11/10/2008, you wrote:
>(castellano abajo)
>
>Hello, here Libertinus from Indy Uruguay and I can´t write perfect english.
>
>Im share the point of view of Andres.
>
>Im part of the network for more than 7 years and Im very sad and angry
>with all this bullshit. I write a personal letter to payment list and
>now I write new one in comunication because I need it.
>
>I only see two cause: or we have the enemy inside making internal
>problem or that after the antiglobalization (anticapitalist) movement
>crisis enter new people to this network with a bad ideological bassment.
>
>But looking the list of imc
>
>belguim? They had lot of internal problem in this old node. And they
>spred in many collectives.
>Bolivia? I sure most of them dont know anithing about it.
>australia? what the fuck is this collective? I never listen to it.
>linksunten? new collective with a strange relation with germany node.
>uk imc? mmm, something sound to me wrong here. no? all the local
>network? mmm...
>Urbana??? yes, always there. arrrgh!
>
>"UNFRIENDLY INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES"??? ooohghh, that hurt!! but...
>is the history of Latinamerica. always there making trobble and putting money.
>
>
>
>CASTELLANO pa la buena gente.
>
>
>Hola, Soy Libertinus de Indymedia Uruguay y no puedo escribir bien en ingles.
>
>Comparto el punto de vista de Andres de Indy Canarias.
>
>Soy parte la red desde hace ya 7 anios y estoy muy triste y enojado
>con toda esta mierda. Ya escribi una carta personal a la lista payment
>y ahora escribo otra aqui porque lo necesito.
>
>Yo solo veo dos causas, o tenemos el enemigo dentro generando
>problemas internos o que luego de la crisis del movimiento
>anticapitalista (antiglobalizacion) ha entrado nuevas personas a esta
>red sin una base ideologica fuerte.
>
>Pero mirando la lista de colectivos:
>
>belgica? Ellos tuvieron muchos problemas internos y se han separado en
>varios colectivos.
>Bolivia? Estoy seguro que muchos de sus miembros no tienen ni idea de
>todo esto.
>australia? que carajo es este colectivo? desde cuando existe eso?
>nunca oi nada de ellos.
>linksunten? nuevo colectivo con una relacion dificil con el nodo aleman
>uk imc? mmm, algo me huele mal aqui, todo la red de uk? estan seguros? mmm...
>Urbana??? Si!! siempre ellos por aqui!!
>
>"Agencias de inteligencia nada amistosas"??? ooo, eso duele!! pero...
>Esa es la historia de latinoamerica, siempre haciendo problemas y
>poniendo dinero.
>
>
>
>Quoting andrés <apb at swissmail.org>:
>
> > Sofia, all,
> >
> > Doing some research, I first read this wiki page:
> > http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/NewsChallenge2009
> > where the origination of this proposal is not described (ie. Who's idea
> > was this?)
> > This document lists the following IMCs as being participants in the
> > proposal:
> > * Arizona Imc
> > * Australia Imc
> > * Austria Imc
> > * Belgium Imc
> > * Bolivia Imc
> > * Boston Imc
> > * Columbus Imc
> > * Linksunten (South-west Germany) Imc
> > * Los Angeles Imc
> > * Philadelphia Imc
> > * Scotland Imc
> > * St. Louis Imc
> > * UK Imc
> > * Urbana Champaign Imc (as fiscal sponsor)
> >
> > Looking further into the proposed edits, I then see some comments from
> > some individuals (not clearly accrediting that they are acting through
> > consensus on behalf of indymedia colectives):
> > http://docs.indymedia.org/rdiff/Devel/ImcDrupalDevProposalEdits
> > from 23/Oct, 24/Oct, 26/Oct;
> > http://docs.indymedia.org/rdiff/Devel/ImcDrupalDevProposalEdits2
> > from 29/Oct, 30/Oct, 2/Nov.
> > Participants are:
> > SofiaJT
> > Bruno
> > Mark
> > Ben
> > Robbt
> > Tom
> > AlsteR
> > some of whom suggest changes which are not evident in the apparantly
> > final document, and some of whom point out that they participate
> > *without* representing indymedia collectives through local consensus.
> > In edits by SofiaJT, four of these names are tagged as associated with
> > Belgium, Columbus, Indybay and Scotland IMCs.
> > These are seven people in total, of whom not all sound entirely happy
> > about the proposal.
> >
> > Going on to review the imc-tech list, we first find this message from
> > 29/Oct, which I reproduce here for its interest:
> > http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-tech/2008-October/1029-x0.html
> >> [IMC-Tech] Knight Foundation Grant for Drupal IMC
> >> Sofia JarrinT sofiajt at yahoo.com
> >> Wed Oct 29 10:11:05 PDT 2008
> >>
> >> * Previous message: [IMC-Tech] Safe to upgrade MiR / Ubuntu ?
> >> * Next message: [IMC-Tech] Knight Foundation Grant for Drupal IMC
> >> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
> >>
> >> hi!
> >>
> >> For disclosure purposes, please be informed that in the past couple
> >> of weeks, we created a loose coalition of Indymedia people to
> >> apply for a Knight Foundation grant
> >> (http://www.newschallenge.org/) to build an Indymedia Drupal
> >> prototype for ALL Indymedias (which will include, among other
> >> things, an Indymedia install profile)... The deadline is November
> >> 1st.
> >>
> >> The idea developed originally from Belgium and Boston Imc and since
> >> then has snowballed to include many other IMCs.
> >>
> >> The goals so far on how exactly to use the money or manage it, if
> >> we get it, are a bit up in the air. But there's a feeling of
> >> urgency that if we don't, this will take too long to get done, and
> >> Imcs continue to close down because of tech difficulties. Techs
> >> lack the time and the money should hopefully give them the space to
> >> allocate that time. One idea is to allocate $ to local Indymedias
> >> through the global fund, so they in turn could "hire" a tech to
> >> help them...
> >>
> >> Most documentation can be found here:
> >>
> >> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Devel/ImcDrupalDev
> >>
> >> And we're using this channel to communicate:
> >>
> >> imc-drupal-dev at lists.indymedia.org
> >>
> >> peace,
> >> Sofia
> >> Boston Imc
> >
> > Everybody interested can follow the imc-tech conversation starting at
> > the above link.
> >
> > I am short of time right now, so I will finish this message at this point.
> >
> > But I must point out that, as well as other points such as the issue of
> > finance/payment in the indymedia network, CMI-ROSARIO has clearly
> > highlighted problems associated with foundations such as these insofar
> > as enemies of indymedia can point even further to putative associations
> > with, um, let's just say "UNFRIENDLY INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES". An issue
> > which the, already not very self-evidently honest "SofiaJT" has not so
> > far deigned to address in the imc-communication list. There *do* appear
> > to be *either* other comunications going on "behind the scenes" *or*
> > "figments of the imagination" going on here.
> >
> > However, as long as at least one person is "enjoying" herself...
> >
> > All for now.
> >
> > Dime si hace falta una traducción al español...
> >
> > Saludos
> > andrés
> > imc-canarias (liason imc-process)
> > imc-communication admin group (open to all imcistas - just apply at link
> > below)
> > _______________________________________________
> > IMC-communication mailing list
> > IMC-communication at lists.indymedia.org
> > http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-communication
> >
>
>
>
>Libertinus
>-----------------
>http://rebelarte.ourproject.org/
>http://uruguay.indymedia.org/
>_______________________________________________
>IMC-communication mailing list
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