[Imc-cymru] Imc-cymru Digest, Vol 34, Issue 1
Ilyan
ac.thomas at ntlworld.com
Fri Dec 1 02:37:21 PST 2006
Hello Harry
- Did you read the Indycymru application to become IMC that was on
this list. If you disagreed with it, why didn't you say so? You were
a member of the list then, not one of the late UK fans who rushed in
after it was sent. You turned down an offer to be an Indycymru
Editor, are you going to join in with Genny and do you full duty as an
UKindymedia Editor?
None of this would have happened if I had not been told at a UK
indymedia meeting in Sheffield that one workshop was about throwing out
a Fascist who was trying to take over an indymedia. I thought I could
leave that to that workshop and go to another about establishing new
Indymedias. It is only later that I find that it turned into a witch
hunt to get rid of one of the founders of Bristol Indymedia - which was
not, and I think is not, part of UK. It later comes out that that
founder is a Christian, and was considered so reliable that he was one
of two people able to sign cheques for UKindymedia.
I should have gone to that workshop and demanded proof that he was a
Fascist. It was later that I found out who it was, and I knew him from
Earth First! Camps where he was always doing some necessary work to
improve the Camp. He may not have been the ideal person to work
alongside, too direct and honest. No smarm.
I cannot remember who it was that told me he was a Fascist. It was one
of three women. Is it paranoia to try to remember which of the three?
What UK really got upset about and cut their link to Indycymru was my
suggestion that there were moles who mislead other people into making
the witch hunt. I thought that let UK off the hook, but they went
ahead and took another bite.
If you read UK its largely self congratulatory reports about
ineffective actions. If you put up a discussion piece it will be
hiddden as non news, and because anyone can post up anything
anonymously, there is lots of garbage. UKindymedia has been
running for about five years, did not stop the war, nor stop the mad
rush to mass extinction. I see no policies put forward there that
would be effective in those fields. That is why the Indycymru
application does not conform to UK indymedia. And if you had been
reading all on this list you would see that I was calling for a UK Wales
site a year ago, so long as it did not call itself Indycymru.
The Indycymru proposal is for the benefit of all Indymedias, in
particular, those that are not being run by the security services. It
has been submitted about three times in various forms and Ana said it
was why she started participating in this Indycymru list. It was at
that Sheffield meeting that I gave her the Master Password to this list.
Ilyan
harry at wildwestwales.com wrote:
> For pity's sake please stop this craziness now and let us
> have a way forward. Poring over the entrails of the
> previous failure gets us nowhere. I support Genny's
> laudable attempt to get an Indymedia presence established
> in Wales with as many threads as the people want to run
> with. If I get any more of these paranoia filled emails I
> will take myself off the list completely, and I have no
> doubt many others will join me.
>
> Peace, Love and bright moments to all who want a better
> world,
>
> Harry Rogers
>
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:01:14 -0800
> imc-cymru-request at lists.indymedia.org wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: [Imc-uk-features] regional autonomy/hiding
>> (was: Hidden
>> 356155) (Ilyan)
>> 2. Re: [Imc-uk-features] regional autonomy/hiding
>> (ana)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 00:30:13 +0000
>> From: Ilyan <ac.thomas at ntlworld.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Imc-cymru] [Imc-uk-features] regional
>> autonomy/hiding
>> (was: Hidden 356155)
>> To: imc-uk-features at lists.indymedia.org
>> Cc: imc-cymru at lists.indymedia.org
>> Message-ID: <456E2615.3050104 at ntlworld.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
>> format=flowed
>>
>> Indycymru ran for four years as a would be indymedia,
>> publishing
>> everything legal submitted. Nothing hidden, much
>> argument.
>> Eventually there were enough Editors to meet the IMC
>> criteria and an
>> application
>> <http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-cymru/2006-February/0214-ip.html>
>> agreed and put in for proper imc links. Odd things
>> then happened.
>>
>> The site was sabotaged, according to the Techie, the
>> whole archive was
>> scrambled.
>> If you will go look in the Wayback Machine, there are
>> some Indymedia
>> entries - very edited, Greenwar has been expunged. I
>> have not had the
>> time to go see if the stuff from DarkerCloud is there.
>> There was no reply from new-imc.
>> An agent of UK made determined efforts to make Wales a
>> part of UK, and
>> eventually repeated previous lies about Indycymru.
>> A flood of new people joined the imc list used by
>> Indycymru, they seem
>> to have hived off with a new UKwales list and plans to
>> become UKedited
>> like Nottingham.
>> Different people's hard drives crashed.
>>
>> There will be an Indycymru meeting at Cilmeri from 10.30
>> am on Saturday
>> 9th December 2006. Or later if people want to take in
>> the remarkable
>> Church proceedings.
>>
>> Ilyan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Genny wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Wietse & all
>>>
>>> I'm watching this conversation with interest as it has a
>>> direct bearing on our plans to get an indymedia site for
>>> Wales. I'm not at all sure that a site with a narrow
>>> activist focus will work here. There are all sorts of
>>> people and groups, under- or un-represented in the
>>> mainstream media, doing stuff which is important to them
>>> and which they may like to report themselves on an
>>> independent media site. I would like them to feel
>>> welcome to do so.
>>> I can see why people don't want the uk newswire
>>> cluttered up with loads of small local things, but it
>>> will be a real loss imo if imc regions can't continue to
>>> publish these stories and offer a more inclusive form of
>>> indymedia.
>>>
>>> Genny
>>>
>>> WietsE wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> phunkee at aktivix.org wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> sorry to hear about the apparent mixup with people
>>>>>>>
>>>>> hiding stuff on your newswire
>>>>>
>>>>>>> because of the way we collectively moderate stuff,
>>>>>>>
>>>>> but it does beg the question
>>>>>
>>>>>>> as to why they were hidden in the first place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From what i can see, they don't really fit
>>>>>>>
>>>>> indymedia's editorial conditions at
>>>>>
>>>>>>> all. I didn't hide them but i can't really blame the
>>>>>>>
>>>>> imcista that did because
>>>>>
>>>>>>> they don't appear to have any political content apart
>>>>>>>
>>>> >from the second post that
>>>>
>>>>>>> promotes Critical Mass a little. It's all well and
>>>>>>>
>>>>> good promoting 'community
>>>>>
>>>>>>> news' but if it's devoid of any bigger political
>>>>>>>
>>>>> picture or critique, then
>>>>>
>>>>>>> what's it doing on any of our newswires?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So maybe the question remains as to whether regional
>>>>>
>>>> collectives can
>>>>
>>>>> decide to run their sites or if they are still bound
>>>>>
>>>> my UK Indymedia
>>>>
>>>>> guidelines and decisions. I am fighting the corner for
>>>>>
>>>> Notts as I know
>>>>
>>>>> people here want to connect the 'political' and
>>>>>
>>>> activisty issues with
>>>>
>>>>> wider community concerns and events. Having made this
>>>>>
>>>> decision, meant
>>>>
>>>>> that a more diverse group of people got online and
>>>>>
>>>> involved with the
>>>>
>>>>> site. Not just activists or people interested in
>>>>>
>>>> 'political
>>>>
>>>>> issues'.
>>>>>
>>>>> How about the numerous photo reports Tash and others
>>>>>
>>>> have made about the
>>>>
>>>>> eco building currently being build in Nottingham:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/06/343763.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/02/333761.html
>>>>
>>>>> Surely these clog up the servers. And what about all
>>>>>
>>>> these 'non
>>>>
>>>>> political' community related events people have
>>>>>
>>>> reported on in the past
>>>>
>>>>> on the Notts newswire:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/10/353714.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/10/353738.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/10/352949.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/10/352970.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/10/352593.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/08/348402.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/08/348381.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/08/348423.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/08/348445.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/08/348508.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/08/348529.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/06/342186.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/04/338547.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/03/336116.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/02/332990.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2006/01/331089.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/nottinghamshire/2005/12/329787.html
>>>>
>>>>> Should they all be hidden?
>>>>>
>>>>> If we talk about giving people who are marginalized in
>>>>>
>>>> the mainstream
>>>>
>>>>> media a voice than we should include way more groups
>>>>>
>>>> and communities
>>>>
>>>>> than we currently do. Some of us try to make an effort
>>>>>
>>>> to get stories
>>>>
>>>>> from different communities heard. The Asian Mela, the
>>>>>
>>>> Chinese New Year,
>>>>
>>>>> the Sikh Vaisakhi parade and the Nworz celebrations
>>>>>
>>>> which marks the
>>>>
>>>>> start of the new year for Iranian, Afghan and Kurd
>>>>>
>>>> community are just a
>>>>
>>>>> few examples of things this summer. Now how
>>>>>
>>>> 'political' is it to try and
>>>>
>>>>> include these people? One could argue it is hardly
>>>>>
>>>> 'political' and that
>>>>
>>>>> Indymedia isn't there to report on (religious) events
>>>>>
>>>> like these. Well
>>>>
>>>>> they are part of the community we live in and to
>>>>>
>>>> (unlike the mainstream)
>>>>
>>>>> give a representation of what really happens here, we
>>>>>
>>>> are happy for this
>>>>
>>>>> to be on the site.
>>>>>
>>>>> For me, this is the challenge that Indymedia faces.
>>>>>
>>>> Unless the wider
>>>>
>>>>> Indymedia (especially in the UK) gets more involvement
>>>>>
>>> >from a wider part
>>>
>>>>> of society than we have failed to make it as open,
>>>>>
>>>> accessible and broad
>>>>
>>>>> as we hopefully like it to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to say that I'm utterly disappointed by some
>>>>>
>>>> peoples attitude
>>>>
>>>>> towards this issue and in some way I am less and less
>>>>>
>>>> interested in
>>>>
>>>>> doing stuff for Indymedia as the project just seems to
>>>>>
>>>> get stuck on its
>>>>
>>>>> non-ability to reach out to a wider and diverse
>>>>>
>>>> audience.
>>>>
>>>>> Wietse
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:43:58 +0000
>> From: ana <anap at riseup.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Imc-cymru] [Imc-uk-features] regional
>> autonomy/hiding
>> To: IMC Wales <imc-cymru at lists.indymedia.org>
>> Cc: imc-uk-features at lists.indymedia.org
>> Message-ID: <456E375E.1050503 at riseup.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Just for the record really, and not wanting to inflame
>> anything on a
>> list that really is not for this discussion. I will not
>> reply to any
>> further emails on the subject.
>>
>> Ilyan wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> There was no reply from new-imc.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes there was. That was me.
>>
>>> An agent of UK made determined efforts to make Wales a
>>> part of UK,
>>>
>> Hey that must refer to me! I am amused by the "an agent
>> of UK"
>> expression. The archives are there, I presented the
>> possibilities for a
>> new indymedia in wales with its pros and cons. The
>> decision is the
>> group's as I made clear.
>>
>>> and
>>> eventually repeated previous lies about Indycymru.
>>>
>>>
>> Ein? Well just look at the archives - maybe process list
>> is the place to
>> search for mails on the subject, apart from the cymru
>> list of course.
>>
>>> A flood of new people joined the imc list used by
>>> Indycymru,
>>>
>> Invited by people with the energy to steer up the
>> process to create an
>> imc for wales.
>>
>>> they seem
>>> to have hived off with a new UKwales list
>>>
>> because the cymru list became unusuable due to
>> disruption - again, check
>> the archives if curious.
>>
>>> and plans to become UKedited
>>> like Nottingham.
>>>
>>>
>> And we shall respect their autonomy :-p
>>
>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>> Again - please do not expect me to follow on this
>> thread. Thanks.
>>
>> ana
>>
>> --
>> -----------
>> http://anap.co.nr
>>
>>
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