[Imc-cymru] Welcome &aFwd: Re: an application from Indycymru

[ilyan]

Welcome to the imc-cymru list Hedd- gwynfor  and any any other recent 
joiner.

Gwynfor Evans thought there could be a free Wales won by pacifists on 
Christian principles when I spoke to him, around the time of the 
investiture, about bombings.   What I see now is all the corruptions and 
perversions of Westminster are being  forced into Wales by Westminster, 
and no possibility of Wales deciding for itself the form of Welsh 
Government, or whether not to take a seat at the UN as it is too corrupt 
for any reputable nation to join, or, vice versa, eagerly joining to 
purge out the corruption built in by the Superpowers.

 "Criteria for an Independent Welsh State" is no longer available on 
Indycymru.  Having it up may be part reason for Indycymru being done in.

However IMCs do not get involved in hierarchical Politics.   They seem 
to agree with Socrates about Politicians.

  Below are some emails that you would have had if you were connected to 
imc-cymru at lists.indymedia.org    The bit starting half way down with >>  
and >>> is the actual submission requesting imc approval that there be 
an independent Welsh IMC site called Indycymru.  

There has been a late rush of people joining from just peace list,  I am 
not sure that pacifists should take over to wholly represent Wales, but 
they could certainly have have a Henry Richard section on an independent 
Indycymru imc, or on UKindymedia, or both, and participate in both with 
no problems.   People were invited to become part of Indycymru at the 
Henry Richard memorial meeting in Tregaron some years ago, but no one 
took up the offer.   Going to a Henry Richard memorial could be an added 
incentive to get people to travel to an imc meeting.

What was a problem was to get active editors, especially in the iaith.

This year's Indycymru Cilmeri meeting will either be on Kropotkin's 
Birthday or Hanukkah if my reading of the calender is correct.  Cor 
Cochion can usually he heard..

Anyone able to get to Carmarthen on 19th Sept  could go to the 
Wetherspoons on King Street about 7pm for a South Wales Linux group 
meeting.  It is cheaper steak night, but other food available. maybe 
cheaper for two.  One then in Cardiff, and Carmarthen again 17th 
october.   

Temple of Peace 21st sept 12-2.30 then 7 to 9.30 are also possibles for 
meeting and adjourning for a gass after/before attending other events.

Regards
Ilyan


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: an application from Indycymru]
Date: 	Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:38:46 +0100
From: 	ilyan <ac.thomas at ntlworld.com>
Reply-To: 	ac.thomas at ntlworld.com
To: 	new-imc at lists.indymedia.org
CC: 	ana <anap at riseup.net>
References: 	<4505F04E.2000602 at ntlworld.com> 
<50194.ona.1158022947.squirrel at mail.riseup.net>



No Ana,
That application was approved by five active Indycymru editors back in 
March and sent in then, there having been no objection from the inactive 
Editors,  nor from anyone on the imc-cymru list.

A lot of people who want IMC WALES UK have since joined the imc-cymru 
list, they have all had copies of the application, and no one has raised 
any objection or made any discussion.   I await their proposal for an 
imc-wales UK group. It seems none of them are prepared to do the work.

They have been told they can make their own application to be UK 
censored so long as they do not use the Indycymru name.  

What Indycymru Editors need to know is whether the principles on which 
they ran Indycymru are acceptable to IMC.

It is pointless spending money setting up a new URL if the principles 
are now rejected.    We need to know if  IMC has changed its principles 
and the way that Portugal started with, and the registration New York 
used, are not now permissible.  

Regards
Ilyan


ana wrote:
> This is what should not happen - that some one sends something in the name
> of a group without consulting without making sure that the group agrees
> with the whole statement first.
>
> I did say that this form should be sent only when all the documentation is
> ready. The documentation also says ´"fill the form and send it when you
> are ready, and ONLY when you are ready".
>
> As far as I understand not even sending that form to start off the global
> new imc process has been decided yet.
>
> Anyhow, nothing is lost. The global process starts here, new-imc list has
> received this form and some one from that list may offer to help. Can some
> one other than Ilyan subscribe to new-imc to try and follow the process
> please.
>
> They may ask you who you are, they may not allowed you in the list, I am
> not sure of the rules of that working group, but in any case, you can see
> the archives following the appropriate links here:
>
> http://lists.indymedia.org/new-imc
>
> If no one offers their help, it gives you a bit more time to try and
> prepare  the documentation.
>
> I am happy to help you if no one else does, but only if people do read the
> documentation and try and follow it, not if the process is ignored,
> specially the process of internal consensus. For if the person with the
> most time just does the documentation on their own, what is the point of
> this list?
>
> It would be helpful to have some kind of "roll call" to see who is
> interested in making this happen. Might be useful to answer the following
> questions:
>
> 1. whereabouts are you based (for practical puroses for a future meeting),
> and would you be prepared to travel for a meeting.
>
> 2. do you prefer a completely autonomous site in the global indymedia
> network, or a sub-site of imc uk.
>
> and whatever else you want to add.
>
> But please understand that this process can "not" be lead by just one or
> two people, specially not by me. It has to be by people who live in Wales,
> who are on this list, and it has to be a minumum of five people - you will
> struggle less with more of you.
>
> And sorry to bombard the list. It has to be you leading the process, as a
> group not by an individual, and i can be a facilitator, a helper that
> explains what you could do, what is available out there, but ultimately it
> is you people who have to do it, who has to grab it.
>
> Let me know when you need some more help. CC'ing me might be a good idea,
> I will realise sooner that there is an email that needs my attention.
>
> Thanks - and keep up the enthusiasm
>
> ana
>
>
>   
>> I have just sent this off in the approved form.   A certificate notice
>> appeared, then after a long digestion the form re-appeared blank.
>> There was no notice that it had been sent successfully.
>> Regards
>> Ilyan
>>
>> New IMC Application
>>
>> Proposed IMC Name (required):     Indycymru
>>
>> Proposed Indymedia URL (required):http://www.indycymru.org.uk
>>
>> Current URL (if any):             Was as above before site sabotaged.
>>
>> City:
>>
>> Country:                        Cymru  (Wales)
>>
>>
>> Contact Name (required):        Ilyan Thomas
>>
>> Email (required):               ac.thomas at ntlworld.com
>> :
>> Phone:                          01257234451
>>
>> Technical Contact Name:         Ilyan
>>
>> Email:
>>
>> Phone:
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Regional Focus?
>>>       
>> Wales in the World
>>
>>     
>>> Issue Focus?
>>>       
>> the Survival of Earthlife
>>
>>     
>>> Event Focus?
>>>       
>> Mass extinction
>>
>>     
>>> Critical Dates?
>>>       
>>  Too soon
>>
>>     
>>> Supporting Groups:
>>>       
>>  Is this Special Branch asking?   We would be happier saying what groups
>> we support,  IWW,  Earth First! - founded at one of their Gatherings, Rising Tide, Greenpeace, The 1911 Unofficial
>> Reform Committee of the South Wales Miners' Federation.
>>
>>     
>>> Please write an introductory statement about why you want to participate
>>> in the Indymedia Network.
>>>       
>> Indycymru was brought into existence to become an indymedia about four
>> years ago.  When there were enough active editors in communication this
>> was sent off as an application to new-imc back in March.    There was no
>> reply, now we are told we have to apply in an approved format.   That
>> was done, but the software lost the application and it seems it was not
>> delivered.   Here is the application that was sent:
>> "Indycymru has given support to many small Nations struggling for the
>> independence necessary for their survival.  And carries criticisms of
>> Civilisation and everything else including Religions.  But it is an open
>> space for everybody. This means that anyone can read it, and everyone
>> can register to access it to submit news or opinion, or place comment to
>> already placed ones. There is no censorship except for
>> criminal,libel,commercial advertising, obscenity and personal attacks,
>> and some of those might be carried if interesting and instructive, or if
>> submitters make big enough fools of themselves. It is intended that
>> everything else will be posted and (caustically?) "casuistically
>> discussed if we think it's racist, sexist or any other thing we
>> particularly dislike.  If you chose conformity to walk through life,
>> then don't visit us."
>>
>> [What is is the quotation marks is from Portugal's original statement]
>>
>> The reason that 'register' is inserted there is because Portugal failed
>> to survive on an unregistered basis.  On Indycymru anyone can register,
>> we have open registration, and have been going for years.
>>
>> There are minor nitpicking disagreement about interpretation of words
>> which do not really reject the Principles of Unity as long as there is
>> unity about there being diversity rather than conformity.
>>
>> Detailed nitpicks are:
>>
>> the interpretation of open publishing in para 4.  Indycymru has been
>> denounced from within UKindy for not having open publishing despite the
>> fact that virtually everything submitted here, and quite a lot of what
>> has been hidden on UKindy, has been published here.  (At the August EF!
>> indymedia workshop an IMCer did not like that.  But stuff is hidden
>> because editors do not see its relevance, and other stuff really needs
>> to be discussed. those we nicked from UKindy.)
>>
>> In 6 everyone is required to be in agreement in consensus Editorial
>> decision making.  Several indycymru Editors have substantial
>> disagreements with other Editors.   No one has been expelled.
>> Production continued.   Much of the best work was provoked by hostile
>> comments.   A flourishing diversity is possible, and likely better than
>> conformity.
>>
>> In 10 it says 'no discrimination,  perhaps it is jumping the gun there
>> because it does not say 'based on Nationality'  if a web site has
>> pretensions to being a National site, a majority of members should be
>> drawn from that Nation.  There are plenty of Welsh  people of Black,
>> Asian, European, and Chinese origin who fit that, so my supposing
>> conflict may be unreal, note The Principles have it right (in brackets)
>> in the last line below.
>>
>> If that is acceptable to IMCs, then there is no argument with these
>> PRINCIPLES OF UNITY below.
>> 1. The Independent Media Center Network (IMCN) is based upon principles
>> of equality, decentralization and local autonomy. The IMCN is not
>> derived from a centralized bureaucratic process, but from the
>> self-organization of autonomous collectives that recognize the
>> importance in developing a union of networks.
>>
>> 2. All IMC's consider open exchange of and open access to information a
>> prerequisite to the building of a more free and just society.
>>
>> [3. All IMC's respect the right of activists who choose not to be
>> photographed or filmed.]
>>
>> 4. All IMC's, based upon the trust of their contributors and readers,
>> shall utilize open web based publishing, allowing individuals, groups
>> and organizations to express their views, anonymously if desired. **see
>> appendix: Open Publishing document --> still in proposal phase, at this
>> address:
>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-communication/2001-April/
>> 001707.html
>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-communication/2001-April/
>> 000874.html
>>
>> 5. The IMC Network and all local IMC collectives shall be  not-for-profit.
>>
>> 6. All IMC's recognize the importance of process to social change and
>> are committed to the development of non-hierarchical and
>> anti-authoritarian relationships, from interpersonal relationships to
>> group dynamics. Therefore, shall organize themselves collectively and
>> be committed to the principle of consensus decision making and the
>> development of a direct, participatory democratic process] that is
>> transparent to its membership.
>>
>> 7. [All IMC's recognize that a prerequisite for participation in the
>> decision making process of each local group is the contribution of an
>> individual's labor to the group.]
>>
>> 8. All IMC's are committed to caring for one another and our respective
>> communities both collectively and as individuals and will promote the
>> sharing of resources including knowledge, skills and equipment.
>>
>> 9. All IMC's shall be committed to the use of free source code,
>> whenever possible, in order to develop the digital infrastructure, and
>> to increase the independence of the network by not relying on
>> proprietary software.
>>
>> 10. All IMC's shall be committed to the principle of human equality,
>> and shall not discriminate, including discrimination based upon race,
>> gender, age, class or sexual orientation. Recognizing the vast cultural
>> traditions within the network, we are committed to building [diversity]
>> within our localities."
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> What kind of resources can you contribute, in terms of
>>> server/bandwidth/technical and organizing skills?
>>>       
>> Presently a Windows 2000 Athlon,  Linux boxes  and broadband is all, if
>> the professional website we were on is excluded. Are exploring the World.
>>
>>
>>     
>>> What kind of outreach have you done to bring together a diverse group of
>>> people?
>>>       
>> Been to lots of different meetings.
>>
>>
>>     
>>> How does the makeup of your collective reflect the diversity of the
>>> local community (e.g. in relation to gender-, sexual-, spiritual-,
>>> and/or cultural-identity)?
>>>       
>> Protestant, Catholic, Pagan, and Atheist.  Workers, Pensioners,
>> Capitalists, Claimants, and Beggars. A Deaf who may be losing sight.  We
>> do not inquire into what might be personal unless a relevant problem is
>> seen.
>>
>>
>>>If your group currently does not represent the diversity of the local     
>>> community, particularly in relation to groups who are underrepresented
>>> in mainstream society and denied access to vehicles of expression, what
>>> steps will be taken to address this on an ongoing basis?
>>>       
>> Anyone can join.  Should we be arm twisting?
>>
>>     
>>> What steps will be taken to involve individuals in workfields new to
>>> them? What measures will be taken to overcome a gendered work division?
>>>       
>> Anyone can do whatever,  Should coercion be used to break a
>> psychological block?
>>
>>
>>