[Imc-cymru] Moving on

[ana]

Ilyan wrote:
> Not so.  What I have said is that it does not call itself Indycymru, 
> partly because that is the name of a site I have spent years building 
> up, 
Ok, apologies for misquoting. The naming convention in indymedia is not
indysite all one word, but rather indymedia <site>, or imc <site>
> and because it has put in an application in to be an independent 
> part of  Indymedia . 
Ilyan, the way it was sent, it would never get through. I tried to
explain this. let's try again... it would need to be done by a group,
not an individual, filled the application here,
http://newimc.indymedia.org/
after going through the process described on the "EN" for English link.
My being here offering to help is actually part of that process. Once we
have covered some of the steps described in that page we can deal with
the technical faults of the form. In any case even if the form would
arrive to the new imc group it would be unlikely that some one other
than me could help. But of course you can try, and you can ask some one
else to help.

>   It was sent in to what we were told was the 
> new-imc address in March.   It has since been re-submitted twice but 
> there has been no response.  Instead there comes a sudden flood of 
> people, some of them demanding that the Welsh National site subjugate 
> itself to IndymediaUK .  
I have already explained how wrong this mindset/set of believes is and I
don't think it is necessary to explain again. I find it hard to believe
that you have got this idea from coming to various indymedia uk network
meetings that have happened over the years. I was very glad to see that
you didn't seem to feel subjugated to indymedia uk or london when you
got on vehicles driven by uk people :-p
> (when there is already an independent site in 
> Bristol)  
>   
It would be great if people from imc wales offered to host the next imc
uk network meeting like bristol did - they did a wonderful job making
the last one happen. And this year it is happening in Nottingham because
it is a group that is also starting off and they want to use the network
meeting as a catalyst, so it would not be a bad thing at all to start
thinking about it :-)
> Indycymru Editors are waiting for a response to their application. 
>
> Is you task in hand to see that the potential for an independent welsh 
> site following the Indycymru principles does not come to fullfillment?  
>   

I have come here to help set up an indymedia site. Any other sites,
including this "Indycymru" which is not an indymedia site, should not be
discussed in lists on this server.
> Why write such absolute nonsense as:
>   
>> because you keep being the moderator of this list
>> and are not allowing the new people who have shown enthusiasm with the
>> project to participate in that task.
>>   
>>     
>  Why make such a false claim?    
Because people have told me off list that they have asked to be part of
the moderation of this list and have received a negative answer from
you. And because I have no reason to believe that they are lying.

Indymedia work is based on trust - I believe you were in the network
meeting where this phrase was repeated and explained. And trust is
offered upfront, specially the Indycymru website has been the recipient
of that upfront trust of all groups. And any project that comes from
this list/group that bothers to call itself indymedia is already having
that trust, that is why I am here writing these emails trying to explain
to you what indymedia is about instead of doing anything else related to
other projects I am involved in.

So your next question is senseless, and disruptive and I'm not going to
answer it. Let's have some articulate discussion instead of mutual
accusations, shall we?

Thanks

ana
> Who are you trying to put off what?
>
> Ilyan
>
>
> ana wrote:
>   
>> Hi Ilyan and all,
>>
>> I will clarify just the points that have to do with indymedia
>> principles; accusations of lies and other things, I don't think they are
>> constructive, I think they put people off and the intention of this list
>> is to converge people to achieve a defined task, and not put them/us off
>> with accusations or paranoias.
>>
>> People on this list are trying to have an articulate conversation in
>> order to have an indymedia page that will cover Wales. Continuous
>> references to censorship in uk indymedia and to some other websites that
>> aren't even in the indymedia network is disruptive of the objective of
>> this list. It is not constructive and has the potential of putting
>> people off - so let's avoid that and let's concentrate our energies in
>> this great project that is the creation of a page.
>>
>> You have said on this list twice since I have subscribed that you are
>> 'ok' with an indymedia from wales within the uk indymedia "as long as"
>> it doesn't have cymru in the name.
>>
>> It is up to the group who will actually work on that website to decide
>> on the name, and no one not working collaboratively on the creation and
>> future maintaining of that website should be imposing how it can or can
>> not be named. This is what the first one of the Indymedia Principles of
>> Unity is about...
>>
>> BTW it would be good if all, newcomers and otherwise, could read some
>> documentation. The most basic one is the principles of unity and
>> membership criteria , which have been approved by all joining
>> indymedias. links..
>>
>> https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/PrinciplesOfUnity
>> https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/MembershipCriteria
>>
>> Feel free to translate to Welsh and publish in the wiki, and please ask
>> about formatting etc. if you don't manage to find instructions.
>>
>> ... and this is a new link: the FAQ
>>
>> https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/FrequentlyAskedQuestionEn
>>
>>
>> When I say that you are the facto chucking people out, I refer to the
>> fact that people are already preparing the creation of another indymedia
>> list where they/we will be allowed to talk about the creation of this
>> new site without being disrupted with strange references, i.e. to be
>> focused in the task at hand, which is proving impossible on this list,
>> amongh other things because you keep being the moderator of this list
>> and are not allowing the new people who have shown enthusiasm with the
>> project to participate in that task. That is why people are having to
>> move away from this list.
>>
>> Anyway, enough of negative stuff -
>>
>> It would be nice if we can have an introduction round of the people who
>> have recently subscribed to the list - previous introductions can be
>> found in the archives, which you can find if you click on the link at
>> the bottom of this email.
>>
>> ... and if you hadn't had enough, here is a new page if you fancy reading:
>>
>> https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcUK
>>
>> Sorry for leaving it until the end - it is the one suited for this group
>> if it does decide it will go for "the uk option".
>>
>> For the new people: the uk option, as opposed to the global option (i am
>> just making up these names right now) means to be accepted by the uk imc
>> network as opposed to by the global imc netwok. The processes are
>> different and the technical sides of things are different, but IMC uk is
>> governed by the global principles and criteria so in the end result,
>> politically there is no difference.
>>
>> Also, one does not exclude the other, and there is no established
>> preference order. For example there is indymedia bristol, that passed
>> the global process but never the uk process, they have their own server,
>> site, database. they are still part of the uk network, and indeed they
>> hosted the last imc uk network [presential] (face to face) meeting.
>> There is then imc scotland, which has passed the global process and has
>> two site, one in their own server and one as a site within imc uk. Then
>> there are the rest that you can see on imc uk,
>> https://www1.indymedia.org.uk
>> London, Manchester, Oxford, Sheffield etc. (btw the names were always
>> decided by the group; there is no one outside groups that tell them how
>> to name themselves)
>> These are all sub-pages of imc uk, with their own middle columns, but
>> sharing the server and the database. Some of them have also passed the
>> global process, some have not. So it not either one or the other.
>>
>> Also, for the new people. It is always useful to have some one on the
>> imc-uk-features list because
>> 1. if you decide to go with imc uk, there is where decisions that will
>> affect your site are made - because the database is shared
>> 2. if you decide to go solo, it will save you lots of learning time, to
>> see how editorial work is done in a big site.
>>
>> It can be offputting specially at the beginning but please don't try to
>> find all advantages in going with uk and all disadvantages in going solo
>> or vice versa. Both options have prons and cons. More than anything
>> else, it is the practical factors that decide (do we have the technical
>> knowledge between us? do we need help? do we have the server? do we have
>> the people, the time?)
>>
>> If you have read all the way to the end of this email, thank you :-)
>>
>> ana
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>
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>   

-- 
ana
=============
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