[Imc-cymru] [Imc-uk-network] Indycymru myths, was Re: Network meeting announcement
ilyan
ac.thomas at ntlworld.com
Sat Nov 17 13:07:23 PST 2007
Thankyou Zak for finding the full Indycymru application.
What the old Indycymru Editors needed to know is whether Global IMC
refuses participation by a diverse discussion site that does not censor
opinions. Ana was part of the UK takeover of Indycymru move to
introduce censorship and conformity. It is the 'new imc group' that
has to reply. Not a compromised person.
Ilyan
> /
> />>/ New IMC Application
> />>/
> />>/ Proposed IMC Name (required): Indycymru
> />>/
> />>/ Proposed Indymedia URL (required):http://www.indycymru.org.uk
> />>/
> />>/ Current URL (if any): Was as above before site sabotaged.
> />>/
> />>/ City:
> />>/
> />>/ Country: Cymru (Wales)
> />>/
> />>/
> />>/ Contact Name (required): Ilyan Thomas
> />>/
> />>/ Email (required): ac.thomas at ntlworld.com <http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-cymru>
> />>/ :
> />>/ Phone: 01257234451
> />>/
> />>/ Technical Contact Name: Ilyan
> />>/
> />>/ Email:
> />>/
> />>/ Phone:
> />>/
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/ Regional Focus?
> />>>/
> />>/ Wales in the World
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/ Issue Focus?
> />>>/
> />>/ the Survival of Earthlife
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/ Event Focus?
> />>>/
> />>/ Mass extinction
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/ Critical Dates?
> />>>/
> />>/ Too soon
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/ Supporting Groups:
> />>>/
> />>/ Is this Special Branch asking? We would be happier saying what groups
> />>/ we support, IWW, Earth First! - founded at one of their Gatherings, Rising Tide, Greenpeace, The 1911 Unofficial
> />>/ Reform Committee of the South Wales Miners' Federation.
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/ Please write an introductory statement about why you want to participate
> />>>/ in the Indymedia Network.
> />>>/
> />>/ Indycymru was brought into existence to become an indymedia about four
> />>/ years ago. When there were enough active editors in communication this
> />>/ was sent off as an application to new-imc back in March. There was no
> />>/ reply, now we are told we have to apply in an approved format. That
> />>/ was done, but the software lost the application and it seems it was not
> />>/ delivered. Here is the application that was sent:
> />>/ "Indycymru has given support to many small Nations struggling for the
> />>/ independence necessary for their survival. And carries criticisms of
> />>/ Civilisation and everything else including Religions. But it is an open
> />>/ space for everybody. This means that anyone can read it, and everyone
> />>/ can register to access it to submit news or opinion, or place comment to
> />>/ already placed ones. There is no censorship except for
> />>/ criminal,libel,commercial advertising, obscenity and personal attacks,
> />>/ and some of those might be carried if interesting and instructive, or if
> />>/ submitters make big enough fools of themselves. It is intended that
> />>/ everything else will be posted and (caustically?) "casuistically
> />>/ discussed if we think it's racist, sexist or any other thing we
> />>/ particularly dislike. If you chose conformity to walk through life,
> />>/ then don't visit us."
> />>/
> />>/ [What is is the quotation marks is from Portugal's original statement]
> />>/
> />>/ The reason that 'register' is inserted there is because Portugal failed
> />>/ to survive on an unregistered basis. On Indycymru anyone can register,
> />>/ we have open registration, and have been going for years.
> />>/
> />>/ There are minor nitpicking disagreement about interpretation of words
> />>/ which do not really reject the Principles of Unity as long as there is
> />>/ unity about there being diversity rather than conformity.
> />>/
> />>/ Detailed nitpicks are:
> />>/
> />>/ the interpretation of open publishing in para 4. Indycymru has been
> />>/ denounced from within UKindy for not having open publishing despite the
> />>/ fact that virtually everything submitted here, and quite a lot of what
> />>/ has been hidden on UKindy, has been published here. (At the August EF!
> />>/ indymedia workshop an IMCer did not like that. But stuff is hidden
> />>/ because editors do not see its relevance, and other stuff really needs
> />>/ to be discussed. those we nicked from UKindy.)
> />>/
> />>/ In 6 everyone is required to be in agreement in consensus Editorial
> />>/ decision making. Several indycymru Editors have substantial
> />>/ disagreements with other Editors. No one has been expelled.
> />>/ Production continued. Much of the best work was provoked by hostile
> />>/ comments. A flourishing diversity is possible, and likely better than
> />>/ conformity.
> />>/
> />>/ In 10 it says 'no discrimination, perhaps it is jumping the gun there
> />>/ because it does not say 'based on Nationality' if a web site has
> />>/ pretensions to being a National site, a majority of members should be
> />>/ drawn from that Nation. There are plenty of Welsh people of Black,
> />>/ Asian, European, and Chinese origin who fit that, so my supposing
> />>/ conflict may be unreal, note The Principles have it right (in brackets)
> />>/ in the last line below.
> />>/
> />>/ If that is acceptable to IMCs, then there is no argument with these
> />>/ PRINCIPLES OF UNITY below.
> />>/ 1. The Independent Media Center Network (IMCN) is based upon principles
> />>/ of equality, decentralization and local autonomy. The IMCN is not
> />>/ derived from a centralized bureaucratic process, but from the
> />>/ self-organization of autonomous collectives that recognize the
> />>/ importance in developing a union of networks.
> />>/
> />>/ 2. All IMC's consider open exchange of and open access to information a
> />>/ prerequisite to the building of a more free and just society.
> />>/
> />>/ [3. All IMC's respect the right of activists who choose not to be
> />>/ photographed or filmed.]
> />>/
> />>/ 4. All IMC's, based upon the trust of their contributors and readers,
> />>/ shall utilize open web based publishing, allowing individuals, groups
> />>/ and organizations to express their views, anonymously if desired. **see
> />>/ appendix: Open Publishing document --> still in proposal phase, at this
> />>/ address:
> />>/ http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-communication/2001-April/
> />>/ 001707.html
> />>/ http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-communication/2001-April/
> />>/ 000874.html
> />>/
> />>/ 5. The IMC Network and all local IMC collectives shall be not-for-profit.
> />>/
> />>/ 6. All IMC's recognize the importance of process to social change and
> />>/ are committed to the development of non-hierarchical and
> />>/ anti-authoritarian relationships, from interpersonal relationships to
> />>/ group dynamics. Therefore, shall organize themselves collectively and
> />>/ be committed to the principle of consensus decision making and the
> />>/ development of a direct, participatory democratic process] that is
> />>/ transparent to its membership.
> />>/
> />>/ 7. [All IMC's recognize that a prerequisite for participation in the
> />>/ decision making process of each local group is the contribution of an
> />>/ individual's labor to the group.]
> />>/
> />>/ 8. All IMC's are committed to caring for one another and our respective
> />>/ communities both collectively and as individuals and will promote the
> />>/ sharing of resources including knowledge, skills and equipment.
> />>/
> />>/ 9. All IMC's shall be committed to the use of free source code,
> />>/ whenever possible, in order to develop the digital infrastructure, and
> />>/ to increase the independence of the network by not relying on
> />>/ proprietary software.
> />>/
> />>/ 10. All IMC's shall be committed to the principle of human equality,
> />>/ and shall not discriminate, including discrimination based upon race,
> />>/ gender, age, class or sexual orientation. Recognizing the vast cultural
> />>/ traditions within the network, we are committed to building [diversity]
> />>/ within our localities."
> />>/
> />>/
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/ What kind of resources can you contribute, in terms of
> />>>/ server/bandwidth/technical and organizing skills?
> />>>/
> />>/ Presently a Windows 2000 Athlon, Linux boxes and broadband is all, if
> />>/ the professional website we were on is excluded. Are exploring the World.
> />>/
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/ What kind of outreach have you done to bring together a diverse group of
> />>>/ people?
> />>>/
> />>/ Been to lots of different meetings.
> />>/
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/ How does the makeup of your collective reflect the diversity of the
> />>>/ local community (e.g. in relation to gender-, sexual-, spiritual-,
> />>>/ and/or cultural-identity)?
> />>>/
> />>/ Protestant, Catholic, Pagan, and Atheist. Workers, Pensioners,
> />>/ Capitalists, Claimants, and Beggars. A Deaf who may be losing sight. We
> />>/ do not inquire into what might be personal unless a relevant problem is
> />>/ seen.
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/If your group currently does not represent the diversity of the local
> />>>/ community, particularly in relation to groups who are underrepresented
> />>>/ in mainstream society and denied access to vehicles of expression, what
> />>>/ steps will be taken to address this on an ongoing basis?
> />>>/
> />>/ Anyone can join. Should we be arm twisting?
> />>/
> />>/
> />>>/ What steps will be taken to involve individuals in workfields new to
> />>>/ them? What measures will be taken to overcome a gendered work division?
> />>>/
> />>/ Anyone can do whatever, Should coercion be used to break a
> />>/ psychological block?
> />>/
> />>/
> />>/
> /
Zak wrote:
> ilyan wrote:
>
>
>> IndyCymru
>> <http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-cymru/2006-March/0321-oy.html>
>> is waiting a reply to its application to new-imc list of March 21st
>> 2006.
>>
>
> Please can we put an end to this myth? Since I can't find the previous
> debunking of this one to reference, here we go again...
>
>
> This email[1] was submitted by Ilyan to new-imc on 21 March 2006.
> (Ilyan, your link was to the imc-cymru list, which doesn't show that it
> was actually sent to new-imc).
>
> There *was* a response[2] to the imc-cymru list, from Ana, on 8
> September 2006, noting that the original submission wasn't in a form
> that new-imc could work with, and suggesting how to submit a new-imc
> application correctly. This was further clarified in a followup[3].
>
> The new-imc form[4] was then submitted by Ilyan on 11 September 2006,
> and the contents cross-pasted to the new-imc list[5] due to apparent
> technical difficulties.
>
> Ana responsed[5] that (amongst other things) this neither was
> accompanied by the necessary documentation, nor did the application
> appear to be the result of any kind of group consensus but the work of
> one individual.
>
> Ilyan challenged the latter point in a reply[6], and forwarded the
> thread to imc-cymru[7]. However, a scan of the imc-cymru archives for
> that period certainly doesn't show the development of any kind of group
> consensus on the application, nor does the application itself.
>
> That appears to have been the last substantive exchange on the subject
> on either the new-imc or imc-cymru list, and the latter appears to have
> been pretty much dormant since the UK Wales collective moved to a
> separate list around the start of this year.
>
> Anyway, the upshot of all this is that, as far as I can tell,
> Indycymru's application still hasn't been accompanied by the necessary
> documentation for the process to begin -- although I'll admit that I'm
> not especially familiar with the new-imc process.
>
>
> Right, time to get back to something more productive...
>
>
> Zak.
>
>
> [1]http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/new-imc/2006-March/0324-09.html
> [2]http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-cymru/2006-September/0908-92.html
> [3]http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-cymru/2006-September/0908-gb.html
> [4]http://newimc.indymedia.org/
> [5]http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/new-imc/2006-September/0925-h4.html
> [6]http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/new-imc/2006-September/0925-ge.html
> [7]http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-cymru/2006-September/0916-4z.html
>
>
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