[imc-baghdad] imc-baghdad mailing list

Fri May 9 20:20:09 PDT 2003

<crosspost imc-baghdad, imc-palestine, imc-beirut,
imc-eastern-mediterranean, imc-cyprus, new-imc>
<Please send reply-to: imc-baghdad to avoid further crossposting>

SUMMARY
(1) The imc-baghdad mailing list
(1a) The imc-baghdad list exists
(1b) clarify realistic purpose of imc-baghdad list 
(1c) make regional locals welcome to the list
-
(2) reminders about new-imc and Indymedia
(2a) Who makes the decisions: the whole network, with communication...
(2b) Examples of why we have a process:
(2c) An IMC is primarily a *collective* of people who live locally and ...
(2d) i think that christopher's message here is reasonably representative...
-
(3) imc-baghdad people might want to support IMC Palestine
-

Dear all,
   i'm a volunteer in the new-imc working group and in IMC Poland.  As
background, just remember that Poland is a country which sent 200
soldiers to kill Iraqi soldiers and civilians and support the Iraq
invasion, and is now set up to be one of the "occupying powers" in
order to maximally exploit Iraqis, make lots of money there and
support "neo-liberal economics" in Iraq. However, since the list is
firing away like crazy and US supporters are full of enthusiasm, i
thought maybe i should help in communications (someone asked me to,
offlist, as well). i'd rather not become the new-imc "helper", 
i think christopher is doing fine facilitation on "indymedia" issues
on the list and it would moreover make sense that a new-imc working
group member from the region, not living in an occupying power (albeit
an opportunistic, powerless power like Poland), be involved. But
i think the following are a few things that have been missed/forgotten.

(1) The imc-baghdad mailing list
(1a) The imc-baghdad list exists

An imc-baghdad list has been created, but the suggestion made in
the new-imc working group to make it clearly a supporters' list rather
than a participants' list by using a name like "imc-baghdad-support" was
ignored. However, the list exists, the supporters are using it:

http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-baghdad

(1b) clarify realistic purpose of imc-baghdad list 

christopher, crystal, jacquie: Since the list name does not include
"-support", could i suggest that you edit the imc-baghdad listinfo
page in order to clearly explain to new people what the purpose of the
list is, in order to minimise confusion?

For example, something from christopher's message:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-baghdad/2003-May/000030.html

> Couple of assumptions:
> - the list is, if not entirely composed of, totally dominated by 
> non-Iraqis, and people not in Iraq
> - Iraqis will not be able ready to form an actual IMC via the new-imc 
> process for several months
> 
> it seems that this list at this 
> point is not really about organizing an Iraqi IMC but rather in supporting 
> a group of Iraqis and Independent reporters on the ground in Iraq.

These few sentences would make the purpose much clearer and avoid
discussion going around in circles when regional IMC people and
eventually... local Iraqis get involved and wonder about these questions.

Other stuff could be added (e.g. a pointer to the TWiki), but the
above is essential, IMHO.

(1c) make regional locals welcome to the list

Could well-intentioned activists from the US please make people from
the region feel welcome on the list and accept that they are unlikely
to fire away 10 emails per day or be able to sensibly respond if noone
writes summaries? For example, blue pi from IMC Beirut and petros from
IMC Cyprus. As an example, a 72 hour decision-making deadline
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-baghdad/2003-May/000033.html
is unlikely, IMHO, to be sufficient for regional IMC people. In any
case, this is *not* my decision, it's just an example, but you really
ought to invite regional people to the list and find out from *them*
what they think is a reasonable decision-making procedure. 

(2) reminders about new-imc and Indymedia

julia wrote:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-baghdad/2003-May/000041.html
> I may be a lot naive on why the site can't be given an IMC address.  Who 
> makes the decisions
> 
> There are very good reasons why the server can't be in Baghdad and that i
> s through no fault of the group.  I am quite sure.. knowing some of them,
>  that the very first chance they have it will be IMC Baghdad.    & It is 
> an open forum for publishing..
> 
> Perhaps someone could offer a REALLY good explanation why not.  They are 
> not a business web site either (dot com indeed)

(2a) Who makes the decisions: the whole network, with communication
and organising help from the new-imc working group. Please carefully read:

http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo

(2b) Examples of why we have a process:
- see (1a) above - lack of process leads to confusion 
- see (1c) above - regional IMCs were not informed about the list creation,
though they clearly asked to be involved:

petros (IMC Cyprus):
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2003-April/003744.html
blue pi (IMC Beirut):
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/new-imc/2003-April/003764.html 

(2c) An IMC is primarily a *collective* of people who live locally and 
are part of local grassroots activism, not just a web site. It's also
being part of a global network, not a US-centred or even Euro-centred
network - hopefully.

(2d) i think that christopher's message here is reasonably representative
of what the new-imc working group feels about organising independent
media in Baghdad and how that relates to the network:
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-baghdad/2003-May/000047.html

(3) imc-baghdad people might want to support IMC Palestine

http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/public/imc-baghdad/2003-May/000021.html
> Couldn't the folks with Jerusalem IMC help. Their site is dual lang english
> arabic. Beth

beth does not seem to have noticed that the IMC Jerusalem website
has been frozen for nearly 3 months. 

bilal (i think) sent a call for help (sorry, i can't find it, i
thought it was on new-imc). Of course i'm sure IMC Palestine would be
happy to help, but i guess their server is on IMC SF and SF people
have been too repressed to be able to help (i assume), so right now
they need help for their *own* site.

i'm sure IMC Palestine people would be delighted to have a functioning
server once again, and i'm sure they would be supportive of the 
Al Muajaha newspaper project and an open publishing web site which
might eventually evolve into a tool for a local Indymedia collective.

Their official contact is here:
http://www.indymedia.org/contact.php3
imc-palestine at lists.indymedia.org

Given the great enthusiasm for IMC Baghdad, it would be nice to see
similar enthusiasm for IMC Palestine, which after all functioned
more or less successfully for over a year. i would guess that US-based
people might have some contact with the IMC SF people.

Recommended followups to imc-baghdad at lists.indymedia.org

solidarity
boud

PS: The newspaper project:
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/Al-MuajahaIraqNewspaperDevelopmentProject-Proposal