[Imc-lasvegas] Edit, arguing, etc.
gails123456 at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 8 17:29:51 PST 2005
Jeffrey wrote: you have seen that i will not ignore silly and unecessary personal attacks. i
just don't particularly believe in ignoring them.
Response: I was there the night of the meeting and you did nothing wrong. I also agree
everyone who is on the end of the personal attack has every right to defend themself.
Jason uses the strategy of ignoring <lol> and that is all well and good also.
jason writes that he has made "important " decisions but nobody seems to have noticed
much. i too ask why? he blocked sh's address i did not hear a great howl of complaints.
I gave my excuse (reason) in another note. <g>
Jeffrey wrote: as to my "transgression", the mistake i made was to not save the content
that i deleted to show what was done. i should have done that and i regret it. but,
considering that there either is no policy or i was following the policy i don't feel i violated
Response: I copied the whole message before you edited it. I had a premonition that we
might need it. You are correct. You didn't violate any policy. I was just being a Monday
jeffrey <j_pow00 at myway.com> wrote:
yes this is a good discussion. if we could keep it to the pertinent points, it could be a better one. jason, you have seen that i will not ignore silly and unecessary personal attacks. i just don't particularly believe in ignoring them. they aren't really necessary and they are just plain wrong.as for the matter at hand, yes it was wrong to alter sh's "article" without consulting the group. but again there wasn't really a policy in place and furthermore it would seem that i WAS following the "policy" in place! now, i seem to recall another "article" by sh where some other person(s) were deeply offended. they asked the group about deleting it and, without reading it and considering the source, i gave my ok to do so.perhaps that was a consensus i don't know. is there a certain quorum or number of responses that constitute consensus? is it just whomever answers the email? jason writes that he has made "important " decisions but nobody seems to have noticed much. i too ask why? he
blocked sh's address i did not hear a great howl of complaints. why? as to my "transgression", the mistake i made was to not save the content that i deleted to show what was done. i should have done that and i regret it. but, considering that there either is no policy or i was following the policy i don't feel i violated anything. thanx, jason for a sane and non belligerant response! i appreciate that! if we can keep discussions on this level i think we can and will make actual progress.
peace, jp :-)
--- On Mon 02/07, Jason < jbh at riseup.net > wrote:
From: Jason [mailto: jbh at riseup.net]
To: imc-lasvegas at lists.indymedia.org
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 20:15:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Imc-lasvegas] Edit, arguing, etc.
Wow! Great discussion, everyone! I'm really impressed with Mikeal's
civility and the way that he appologized when he realized that he made a
mistake. Thanks for doing that, Mikeal. Plus, I'm feeling that we're all
getting closer due to this and I'm grateful that all of us are going
through this together. We've got a lot of work ahead of us, and I can see
that we're ready to tackle it.
As for Jeffrey's decision to delete some content in a post ... I,
personally, wouldn't do that. But, since we have no policy that directs
us in deleting content (or hiding articles for that matter), I can't do
much more than tell the group what I, stress the word 'I', would or
wouldn't do. And I wouldn't delete even the worst reference to myself in
an article. But, that's just me. I too, feel that it's not ok to change
an author's content without noting the change (thanks Genelle!). Jeffrey,
on the other hand, feels differently. And I totally respect that.
Gail writes, "Jeffrey, I think you made a mistake-- making an important
decision without consulting with anyone." If Jeffrey is guilty of this,
than I am also guilty. Yet, nobody has yet made this connection or
brought this out. Why?
When I decided to block S.H.'s IP address, that was a VERY serious
decision that I made with limited discussions with others, probably only
Genelle. But for the most part, it wasn't a consensed-upon action. And
yet, nobody derided me for having done that ... why?
When I hide an article or block an IP address (S.H's is the only IP
address I've blocked), I write an e-mail explaining my action to the main
e-mail list. Jeffrey did this, only he didn't include the content that he
cut. But, he doesn't have to. Not yet, at least. In fact, any current
password holder can hide, delete, or modify whatever they want without
censure at this point, with the exception of feature/center column
articles for which we do have a policy. All the rest, is up for grabs.
In fact, I know there have b een some articles that were hidden without any
mention on this list. So, Jeffrey acting on his own D.I.Y. initiative to
delete what he feels needs to be deleted is actually COMPLYING with the
current policy rather than going against it.
Once the editorial collective decides on an editorial policy that includes
deletions and hiding articles AND more than one member of the editorial
collective has a password (based on the current consensed-upon password
policy), Jeffrey, myself, and other password holders will be unable to
make these decisions on our own ... unless the policy gives us that power.
But until then, Jeffrey did not violate LVIMC policy.
At this point, if someone has a problem with the actual content that
Jeffrey cut, specifically, and feels that the content should be put back
in, one will have to make that proposal, start that discussion, and gain
consensus either through this list or (and most likely) at the next
meeting. Plus, I'm sure the editorial collective will include a grievance
process within the editorial policy that will account for these situations
in the future.
Again, thanks for the civility, and I'm looking forward to our new
editorial policy and working editorial collective!
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