[imc-northern] Discussion on the Northern Indymedia list re: FRFI's participation in the site
jakirkcaldy at yahoo.co.uk
Wed Aug 12 03:23:14 PDT 2009
Perhaps Jen adds a little weight to my position that we should allow the group to exist as is and as long as everything remains within the guidelines.
Just to add a little regarding the concept of hierarchies; look, power is an element of all human relationships, even those of 'anarchists' and others who wish to see 'power', in a sense, done away with.
Contrary to some of the views expoused on this list, non-hierarchical human groupings exist but only in theory and at the polarities of concepts that our language inclines us to dichotomise. All you can do is accept the inevitability of hierarchical structures (and yes in my opinion they exist on this list and in all 'anarchist' groups) and mitigate against the negative externalities that ensue, and attempt to be as inclusive as is humanly possible.
Sorry to waffle on here but I feel quite strongly about these concepts, these obvious misconceptions, and how they relate to actual human practices.
--- On Wed, 12/8/09, Jen <libjf at riseup.net> wrote:
From: Jen <libjf at riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [imc-northern] Discussion on the Northern Indymedia list re: FRFI's participation in the site
To: "frfi northeast" <frfinortheast at googlemail.com>, "IMC Northern England" <imc-northern at lists.indymedia.org>
Date: Wednesday, 12 August, 2009, 10:59 AM
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Just to clarify for everyone how this situation has come about, as I did
explain at the northern IMC meeting on sunday just gone, but I haven't
written up the minutes yet [to do list...]
I was looking at the Leeds/Bradford site and saw that an event had been
posted on hte newswire on 27 july 09 and thought that the poster
probably hadnt realised that the new 'northern indymedia' site was up
and running. trying to be a nice person I then posted it on the new site
and emailed FRFI to let them know a) what I had done b) that
leeds/bradford is an archive and northern is the place for new stuff.
I don't know FRFI personally or anything, I just moved the unmoderated
post from Leeds/Bradford to northern. Obviously these actions have
caused confusion for everyone involved really and I'm sorry that that
has happened when i genuinely was just trying to get people to know
about the new site and to use it.
It seems some people are a little less
> enthusiastic than yourself about FRFI contributing to the site, to the
> of some people comparing us to fascists and the Labour Party..
Other people's comparisons of FRFI to other groups is up to them. I
actually can't really comment as I don't know much about FRFI. I posted
their event as it was [and remains] unmoderated on the archive of
I think that we can move forward in a way which encourages other
politically active groups to post on our site while not promoting their
heirarchical structure, which I think is the problem forseen by others
in the collective. I think we need to take it on a case by case basis,
as dis-allowing groups to post because they opperate heirarchically
excludes people like Bradford Civic society, Friends of the earth [oops,
put my foot in it again] and all student societies as constitutionally
they have to have some people *above* others.
I agree that heirarchy is shit, it's a bigstinking pile and it permeates
all the oppression that i see around me and doing without it is the way
forward to a more progressive society. But i also don't like excluding
groups who are doing good stuff. coz we need the good stuff.
I'm also feeling sort of guilty that this seems to be *my fault*, but
also, if i'd never posted the FRFI event on northern indymedia, none of
this would ever have come up and the event would have remained on the
leeds/bradford archive anyway.
Tim, I'm very sorry if you feel I have been unfair by inviting you to
use northern indymedia and you hav ethen felt unwelcome, that was not my
intention, I hope I have responded satisfactorily to your email, but
please let me know if you want anymore responses from me personally.
Please also join the discussion on the list, i think this is the best
way we can come to a decision about how we can work together.
frfi northeast wrote:
> Hi Jen,
> Mark emailed us today about a discussion on the Northern Indymedia list
> about our posts, have you seen it? It seems some people are a little less
> enthusiastic than yourself about FRFI contributing to the site, to the point
> of some people comparing us to fascists and the Labour Party.. As you
> initially suggested we contribute, I'm interested what your thoughts are on
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