[IMC-Satellite] Fwd: mssg regarding the tour

[blank at riseup.net]

I would like to say a few things. First off Indymedia is not about profit
or labor, it is about empowering others to become the media and take back
what a broken system is trying to keep away from us, our own voices. Yes,
profit and labor are two different things but in this case they go hand
and hand. By going on a tour with video's that other Indymedia's in the
network from all around the world have put together without getting paid a
single red cent, not because they want money but because they have a
passion for the work they do, and then turning that around to line your
own pocket is wrong. I have spent countless hours doing Indymedia “labor”
so don’t give me any crap about what someone should be compensated for. If
you think you should be compensated for Indymedia work with money, then
you should go find something else. I sure as hell don’t believe that I
should be compensated financially for the work that I do with Indymedia,
do you?

Why should anyone be allowed to go on a tour and PROFIT OFF OF OTHERS hard
work? Especially if it's not even clear where the funding for this is
coming from. Especially if no effort to contact the creators of these
videos has been made (or their general IMC). Especially if its to have an
excuse to go on a three month long tour which interestingly enough had its
funding pulled beforehand (the first time) by those who now have their
names on this grant proposal. Especially when this is exploitation of
people (such as an IMC videographer or editor) and natural resources (just
look at the costs for car rentals and factor in the price of gas for EACH
PERSON in the grant) on the back of mother earth. Anyone wanna answer some
of those questions?

“By charging more for something than you have paid for it.” Well guess
what, that’s exactly what is going on here.

By paying yourself you are saying that it is okay to take other peoples
work and make money off it. You’re right that its profit and that is what
is going on here. This isn’t about empowering people to become the media;
it may say that in the grant proposal but if that was the case then why
have the people writing the grant taken it upon them to do this by
themselves? Even more so when there was a lengthy process taken to find
others from all over the United States from different Indymedia’s who do
video work, then brushing them aside like they didn’t even exist? That’s
not right, and there is nothing honorable about it.

As for your quotes from the bible, you might want to pay attention. How do
you justify a tour for over $31,000 if somebody isn’t in this for money
and all the things that go with it, love or no love. That is the concern
here. This tour can easily be done for FAR less then that amount, and very
successfully too and I’ll get to that later.

Yes granted most people need money to live because they live in a system
that demands it, but guess what? There are those that would do this tour
without getting paid for it. Can you imagine what kind of a positive
example that would set and how empowering that would be for everyone if
that could happen? It can, very easily.

Just because you know how to write a grant, apply for one, and then say
it’s to empower others doesn’t mean that’s what the goal is here. This is
about setting a precedent to allow others to make money off of Indymedia
projects and related work. The very people who are putting this together
have even admitted that they want to make a living off of Indymedia.
Hello? Fuck that. That kind of prespective will undermind Indymedia and is
not empowering to others to empower others, but rather to make money.

Money is a tricky thing, a thing we need to get rid of, and yes it is
corrupting. I can list a million examples how it is. It is very real and
not “irrational” in any sense what so ever (just look at Enron for
example). Privileged to make that claim? Yep, in the sense that I can see
what the long term effects are and have been with capitalism. You don’t
think any working class person would make the claim that money is
corrupting? Well I just asked that questions to a few of my friends who
have nothing to do with activism who are in the same room with me who are
working class, and guess what they said? That’s right, that money is
corrupting.

“You got to eat people, and some people need to work to eat, some people
need to get paid.”

I don’t think anyone working on this so call proposed “Indymedia” tour has
any problem feeding themselves, working to feed themselves, or getting
paid for other work that they are doing, so don’t ever use those excuses
ever again.

Things that can be done differently:

1)	Pay for materials needed for the Indymedia tour ONLY (this means nobody
gets paid with money, just good old fashion appreciation.
2)	If you can’t afford to go on the tour and not get paid for going then
don’t.
3)	Use the names from the original process for finding someone(s) for this
tour from different Indymedia’s to promote diversity.
4)	Use Indymedia Videographers to make the documentary instead of paying
for someone outside of Indymedia (use what we already have).
5)	Better communication.


Those are just a few things. Feel free to throw your opinion in there. I
do not mean to sound harshly toward anyone. I'm just very passionate about
Indymedia and the work that goes on within it. If I offend anyone I
apologize. Enlighten me.

blank (portland imc)





> all right, i haven't waded into this quagmire yet, but this post, and some
> of Cat's recent ones, make me think that maybe other voices need to be
> heard.  first to clarify some things.  profit differs from being paid a
> wage for labor.  and i'm not trying just to split hairs here, there really
> is a crucial difference.  profit is when i make money OFF of someone
> else's labor, or off the back of mother earth.  it is attained though the
> exploitation of people or natural resources.  by charging more for
> something than you have paid for it.  That is profit.  A wage is what
> people take home for their work.  it is an honorable and necessary thing
> for people to eat and pay rent.  it's funny the most often misquoted
> excerpt from the bible is "money is the root of all evil."  did you know
> that the actual quote is "love of money is the root of all evil."  there's
> a difference, you see, and lumping all things that have to do with money
> in with profiteering and greed and corruption isn't fa
>  ir and it doesn't really make sense.  i wish we lived in a barter economy
> but we don't.  people need money to live, and if people can make their
> living doing something that they passionately believe in, more power to
> them.  that's called living an integrated life.  it's what i aspire to,
> what i've been trying to do my whole life.  i respect the hell out of
> people that can pull it off.  if some folks have it together enough to go
> through the tedious process of applying for grants and getting some
> funding for important movement media making, bravo!  this implication
> that money ITSELF is somehow evil or corrupting is not only superstitious
> and completely irrational, it is also, frankly, an incredibly priveleged
> attitude.  i don't think a working class person anywhere would make that
> kind of claim.  greed, yes, but money?  you got to eat people, and some
> people need to work to eat, some people need to get paid.
>
> in solidarity,
> -mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bmedia at riseup.net
> Sent: Jun 16, 2004 7:07 PM
> To: imc-satellite at lists.indymedia.org
> Subject: [IMC-Satellite] Fwd: mssg regarding the tour
>
> i have been asked to forward this message, which i support wholeheartedly.
> it is from deva, a portland indymedia contributor.
>
> Cat
>
> ----- Forwarded message from deva <drdartist at riseup.net> -----
>     Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:27:41 -0700
>     From: deva <drdartist at riseup.net>
> Reply-To: deva <drdartist at riseup.net>
>  Subject: Re: can i drop this bag of rice off at your house?
>       To: bmedia at riseup.net
>
>
> Cat has agreed to forward this email to the list. I am responding to
> the discussion on the satellite list regarding the newsreal tour.
>
> I am opposed to the manner in which this tour is being organized.
>
> Responding to Tony. You say you cannot please everyone, and others
> should create their own ideas as long as everyones idea is in alignment
> with indymedia principles.
>
> I would say that this tour is not according to indymedia principles.
>
> Principle of Unity #5  The IMC Network and all local IMC collectives
> shall be not-for-profit.
> ( http://docs.indymedia.org/twiki/bin/view/Global/PrinciplesOfUnity )
>
> You are seeking to make profit from indymedia.
>
> You are using the indymedia name, which is a result of hard work from
> countless volunteers who get paid nothing, to make money for yourself.
> This sets up a hierarchy of people getting paid and people not getting
> paid for doing the same work. This will undermine the enthusiasm of
> volunteers when they learn that some people are making money.
>
> I reject the dancing around this issue as "just a different way of
> doing things that should be respected" as a clever lie to justify
> personal profit. You are not more important than all the indymedia
> volunteers who make the name worth using in the first place. Frankly,
> the effort to justify getting $10,000 to $15,000 in salary for
> indymedia work, and to make a living from indymedia is insulting to all
> the hard working people that receive no compensation.
>
> I now believe that this attitude, if left unchecked, will destroy the
> spirit of indymedia.
>
> I have been watching this idea of making money from indymedia creeping
> in more and more. The fact that there have been people paid up to now
> and that this is a justification for doing so again and again only
> shows me the dangerous pattern of money. Recently I have begun to feel
> it is important to take a strong stand against it.
>
> Beyond just money, is the greater matter of sustainable living.
>
> Indymedia is more than just making media, it is an experiment in a new
> way of living. How we do it matters as much as doing it. It is our
> responsibility as inhabitants of this earth, to think of more than
> whether we can plan a cool tour for ourselves. We have to think of all
> creatures and the impact our choices have.
>
> There are people who will gladly go on a tour in their region to
> promote the newsreal, and do so without getting paid. There is no need
> to feed money to hotels, rental cars, restaurants and other luxuries in
> order to achieve the basic aims of promoting the newsreal. It is a
> waste of resources at a time when we urgently need to be thinking more
> sustainably. We are on the edge of ecological collapse, and near the
> end of ready fuel to feed industrial society.
>
> A higher vision is demanded of all of us.
>
> Here are these views expressed for consideration. I do understand the
> frustration with having ones efforts opposed by people just coming into
> a project or speaking from the outside and not doing the work of the
> newsreal. Therefore, this will be my only email as I do not intend to
> work on the newsreal itself.
>
> deva
> portland indymedia contributor
>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
>
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