[Imc-strategies] using this list - membership question &
victori at resist.ca
victori at resist.ca
Wed Mar 2 13:32:13 PST 2005
Well said. You picked the words right off the tip of my tongue.
PS GDM it was awesome having you in Portland! We will miss you!
> Hi sheri, gdm, others...
> I would not advocate a rule saying only people involved with a local
> imc can be on the list, but I do believe that should be encouraged.
> If there are many local imc's that are having trouble, and because of
> this more people are turning towards a virtual network, this is not a
> healthy trend.
> I can see many posts from gdm on lists, but I still know nothing about
> him. Now when he visits portland for a while, I finally learn something
> about him. Online lists are a good tool for some basic communications
> of mostly factual information and for record keeping, but trust and
> real dialogue will only blossom face to face.
> The virtual should promote the real, not be the escape from it.
> The limitations of virtual activism are so severe, that I believe no
> matter how good the intention, it cannot grow something capable of
> opposing those forces threatening life on this planet.
> Every effort should be made to encourage local focus. It is at that
> level that the real daily challenges of sustainable food, energy,
> shelter and communication await us.
> On Mar 1, 2005, at 7:17 AM, sheri at speakeasy.org wrote:
>> gdm wrote:
>>> i think we must be careful. i am sure that jim will be a great asset
>>> to this
>>> list, but there _are_ people who have this, very similar, story, who
>>> *not* join this list. i can think of one person, from the oceania
>>> region, who
>>> was a part of an imc. that imc became an intolerable place - and
>>> tolerated! that person made posts all over the network that were rude
>>> disruptive and distracted heavily from good work that other people
>>> were doing. i
>>> noticed recently that that same person had started to post again to
>>> imc lists....
>> i think we can easily detect when someone is being obviously
>> disruptive and abusive. we have list etiquette for that and we should
>> start using it and applying it. establishing list membership criteria
>> for this list is slightly different and i'd like to keep the
>> i also think that what bht wrote on the new imc list about how the
>> portland imc works - trust plus consensus - is really an important
>> piece. we're working towards ways of creating and developing and
>> maintaining trust in a virtual network. it's much easier to do in
>> face to face settings, but much harder in the virtual realm. i think
>> flexible but firm membership criteria with strong list etiquette would
>> go a long way for these lists. we also can moderate and facilitate
>> the discussion, when necessary.
>> i also believe that there is something in what jim says about his
>> knowledge and experience from having worked in an imc that fell apart
>> because of the actions of individuals. let's not create policies that
>> limit the inclusion of people who have alot of wisdom to share, while
>> at the same time not including those who would disrupt the list and
>> the positive community we're trying to create.
>>> but maybe we can make sure that there is already some trust in the
>>> imc network
>>> for that person?? like, some kind of vouch system (i know, i hate
>>> them too!). i
>>> think it is only fair to the people on this list to ask the list
>>> first, cos i
>>> would definitely unsubscribe if this person i describe above joined
>>> (some of you
>>> may have figured out who he is)
>> i think finding ways to build in trust mechanisms for the virtual
>> network is critical and perhaps "some kind of vouch system" is really
>> a good idea. a strategic topic? i'd be open to that. i also think
>> that this issue of trust and respectful behavior is also relevant for
>> people who are currently active in indymedia. it's one of the reasons
>> i stopped working in the seattle imc - it was unbearable. with our
>> current criteria of being active in indymedia, any of those people
>> (one in particular) could join this list. so that's why we need to be
>> fluid and self-organizing and have list etiquette policies.
>> and i hope that before you or anyone else unsubscribed gdm because of
>> the *presence* of someone who had been a serious problem somewhere
>> else, we would discuss certain people's participation on the list. i
>> think many of us have known these kinds of people, whether at our
>> local level or at the global level. how we deal with disruption is a
>> key issue with such an open network like indymedia.
>> i think we all have a common goal of this list being
>> (1) focussed on indymedia strategic discussion
>> (2) being comprised of indymedia activists from various sectors of the
>> (3) being a respectful and productive space of dialogue and even
>> hashing out differences and assumptions.
>> and i would add something personally important to me
>> (4) a place where we seek to learn from our mistakes and hold
>> ourselves accountable to the very principles by which we want to hold
>> others to; and
>> (5) we stay open and inclusive even while determining the flexible
>> boundaries of membership.
>> i'd love to hear from others so we can move forward with jim carter's
>> membership to the list. based on a vouch system, i'd vouch for jim
>> and i'd say that we also begin using list etiquette immediately. if
>> someone crosses a line, it can be determined that that person either
>> (a) needs to be moderated and/or (b) abide by the basic list etiquette
>> used on many productive lists or (c) removed from the list.
>>> - --
>>> love and solidarity,
>>> my public key can be found like this:
>>> gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys E3FAA20F
>>> Key fingerprint = BB24 D1A9 984E 6832 B538 A6C0 3E68 458A E3FA A20F
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (Darwin)
>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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