[IMC-Tech] applying for grants
nenolod at sacredspiral.co.uk
Fri Oct 31 14:38:14 PDT 2008
this has nothing to do with the tech list, please discuss on
imc-finance. cms development is also offtopic on this list, imc-cms-dev
is for that.
also, it is my opinion that this grant is especially inappropriate
considering the total value and originating source.
i think financing our techs is probably not likely to get any results.
the problem is that people have things to do outside indymedia.
i am especially concerned about what would happen if we were to start
financing indymedia volunteers, i suspect the end result would not be
much different than mainstream media.
but anyway, imc-tech is for discussing technical problems, this is not
one. take it to imc-finance.
On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 14:05 -0700, Sofia JarrinT wrote:
> hi toya,
> Yes. :) I totally understand that Indymedia is pro-human rights, anti-capitalist, non-hierarchical, non-commercial, etc. That's why I personally joined. To make and give access to making media without the propaganda, without the capitalist influences.
> And the reason why I sent that link was exactly because of the reasons you said: "There are many groups who would ask for this money, who call themselves 'counter culture' or 'independent media' but has very different principals and political opinion from Indymedia." That's exactly my point. More and more of those counter culture groups are arising and "All they do is propaganda about *their* counter-culture or projects so they can get more grants and more money." And that's NOT what Indymedia is about.
> That's why I trust we could finance our techs just to get the CMS (or in plural, several CMS) in place, and most importantly, to help other Indymedias who don't have techs in staff putting in thousands of volunteer hours with distribution. We could do so and still hold our mission and goals true. We could do so through the global imc-fund.
> Unfortunately, we are suffering to overcome our tech difficulties. That's just a fact. And not from a lack of trying or willingness. The Imc-tech collective has a huge burden on their shoulders, and it's frustrating to sit here and not be able to help them when all I hear is "I don't have the time." That's what the grant proposal was about. To give techs, IMC techs (not outside developers), the time. To fund imc-tech meets and perhaps even training. So techs don't get burned out.
> But I don't think, with the current size of our collective, that we could raise enough without outside sources.
> To answer your question: "I would like to know if all the indymedias from that list knows about this foundation and are really supporting this grant proposal." The drupal list has been very quiet since this discussion started... And I don't blame them for not participating in the discussion. It's excruciating. I'm putting myself out here because I feel it's a critical issue and apparently I have too much time in my hands. The proposal is and will stay in limbo unless the original list of participants agree to go forward... This was not about creating resentment or a schism among different CMS imc-tech groups.
> "Also if this is a grant meant to be used for more indymedias than the ones you listed. It would be a great idea to inform the network." The Indymedias listed are those who originally decided they would like to participate in the proposal of creating a Drupal CMS for Indymedia. But yes, the technology was to serve all Indymedias who would be interested in using it, and it is all open source under GL. I say it is, because there are Indymedias running on Drupal out there already. Some doing better than others.
> And yes, I would like to inform the rest of the network, but at the same time I can only handle one list at a time. I rather keep it in the Tech list since this is about funding the different imc-tech groups out there.
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "toya at riseup" <toya at riseup.net>
> To: Sofia JarrinT <sofiajt at yahoo.com>; imc-tech at lists.indymedia.org
> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 3:35:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [IMC-Tech] applying for grants
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> those are great links, but you have to understand Indymedia has
> political positions that are different from those groups, a very easy
> example is our organizing in a horizontal way. Another one is our
> anti-capitalist position.
> > Yet again, there are grant proposals up there already mimicking Indymedia:
> > http://generalapp.newschallenge.org/SNC/ViewItem.aspx?pguid=4a4f8c6a-d2c2-4545-82db-c8ed4b415eba&itemguid=fa9e136a-50d9-46bc-bc3d-3d5d119018cd
> (this is one is for Brasil and they claim "The city of São Paulo doesn't
> have a portal that reports the countercultures movements.")
> First of all I would like to know if you are suggesting that IMC
> Brasil is not 'doing a good work' by adding this comment. I believe
> you are not. Although I want to tell you that people asking grants
> normally want to *emphasize* the need for *their* project so they can
> put their hands in the money. And there are many spaces for counter
> culture movements in Brasil. But this people, coming from a liberal
> and less radical back ground probably never heard of them, spaces like
> Birosca, xanta, Sarava, Radiolivre, TVlivre, mandachuva and so on....
> All tech collectives from Brasil who provides hosts for almost 1
> thousand websites that promotes counter-culture and independent media,
> and many other issues, since most of those sites belongs to social
> movements or related to work done with those.
> I have no idea who these people are but if you talk with the Forum
> Centro Vivo - an assembly of the movements of downtown sao paulo you
> will know that IMC SP have being working closed with them for many
> years now. One of the work we did with them was the Dossie denouncing
> human rights violations during the gentrification process the downtown
> is suffering right now (with money from the EU and the World Bank)
> which was sent to the UN and the President of Brazil. We not only help
> them on that project and not only cover every protest and important
> issues they have but we are also giving training and teaching them how
> to maintain their own website.
> You probably don't know that in Brasil, and I believe this happens
> everywhere, there are many groups who would ask for this money, who
> call themselves 'counter culture' or 'independent media' but has very
> different principals and political opinion from Indymedia. So to see
> that some other groups are getting this money, for us still doesn't
> justify for Indymedia to do so.
> What I am saying here is that as maxigas said and others, there are
> money going to 'cool initiatives' but those initiatives aren't
> standing on the same political principles as we are. Don't want to
> give an radical approach to their work as we want. Just the fact that
> they would ask for money from soros and/or foundations like this one
> shows that they are way less political mature and critical, to stop
> and think and critique such money, in comparison with Indymedia.
> A national gathering hosted in SP in 2006, with the participation of
> many tech, art and independent media collectives (IMC was part of it)
> to talk about only this type of situations. Should we work with
> groups like this? What should be our political position about this
> type of approaches.
> - From the point of view that such groups, normally stays around the
> more radical groups to take their strategies build them in a 'project'
> package, send it as a grant proposal to big foundations, makes a lot
> of money out of it, and in the end they haven't done shit or little on
> the social movement they claim to be part of. All they do is
> propaganda about *their* counter-culture or projects so they can get
> more grants and more money. Is a vicious circle that we decide to not
> be part of. At the end the people of such groups are living off the
> group resource and doing little for the movement they claim to be part of.
> About the Drupal comments you had, I again tell you, the problem isn't
> with IMC's using Drupal. Is with the money, and how it will connect
> Indymedia to this foundation. I would like to know if all the
> indymedias from that list knows about this foundation and are really
> supporting this grant proposal. So far we have heard the voice of
> Boston (maybe Belgium too?) but what about the others? Also if this is
> a grant meant to be used for more indymedias than the ones you listed.
> It would be a great idea to inform the network. If you want to write
> down a communicate I would be happy to translate it to portugues and
> sent to imc-latina and imc-brasil lists, as well as communication.
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> imc-tech at lists.indymedia.org
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