[Imc-uk-features] Oaxaca feature - message left in irc

[Doug.]

If you wish you can put Custody Deaths under Oaxaca. The only reason I wanted
to do the feature at all was because I considered it a neglected subject,
as is SOCPA and probably several others. What about Christmas? No sorry that
is being done to death by the mainstream already. :(

The rew times I have entered IRC nothing has ever been happening and currently
https://chat.indymedia.org/ and http://chat.indymedia.org/ won't let me in
at all from WINXP but I can get into just the latter on my Mac. I have wondered
about the long list of participants just sitting there on the right and never
responding. Do they leave their computers on 24/7 unattended burning up fossil
fuels? Topic for another feature perhaps ;)

Doug.
>
>
>
>Hi
>
>[I'm also sending this email privately to an address i've got for luna
>because i couldn't find any public one in the archives. But if anyone
>here has got any luna's email please forward this, because i'm not sure

>if the one i've got is still active.]
>
>Ok, with reference to the feature I put together combining the end of
>the Other Campaign tour / Oaxaca's continued wave of repression /
>attacks on independent media in Oaxaca / collecting Oscar Beard recent
>reports from Chiapas. Also in reply to luna's concerns (very badly)
>expressed in the irc log below. [More on this below below]
>
>But first note that I only bother to reply this out of my respect for
>luna's political work over the years. And only because I've often been
>a witness of that. But, luna, note that, the same as you, I also have
>my latino temper, and believe me, I can be as rude as you, if not more.

>Without trying to be funny, I've seen you using this type of language
>in real life situations, and it doesn't do any good to anyone,
>including yourself.
>
>But about the feature. I proposed it a such: a combination of recent
>stories that have recently been appearing in the wire about Oaxaca: the

>repression - including that of independent journalists, and about the
>ezln'a other campaign. Also, because a regular contributor of imcuk is
>currently in Chiapas, I thought his reports deserved to be collected
>together. Oscar Beard has contributed a great deal of material to
>indymedia-uk over the months, including some of the best videos we've
>had in the site. Whether you like his style of writing or not is
>another matter, but I think his reports from Chiapas still deserve to
>be featured in the middle column. And yes, I know that Chiapas is far
>away from Oaxaca, but the two stories are obviously connected. I guess
>most people know that, but if anyone has any doubts about it, please
>read the fucking feature.
>
>In any case, this is how I understand it. And because it was me (not
>luna or anyone else) that put some time into making this feature, I did

>it the way I thought it was best. Of course, each of the issues I
>included in it could be turned into separate articles, but hey, no one
>can complain about me (or anyone else) doing it the way we think is
>best, or often, just the way we can. At the end of the day there are
>*very* *few* of us contributing features on a regular basis, and we do
>it whenever we can find the time. I did not have time to put 4
>different articles together, so as I thought it was important to have
>these stories up as soon as possible, i did it combining the four of
>them together. And remember, I proposed the full text in this list
>before it went up in the site. So people could have done some
>constructive criticism, and help putting together the best possible
>article. Or not?
>
>Again, a few people seem to bother about this, and as it is often the
>case, only shiar (one of the main features contributors in imcuk) had
>some positive suggestions, and found time to implement them in the
>article. I know he is very busy right now, so many thankx compa!
>
>But yes, going back to luna's comments below. I am very pissed off by
>these. Some of you may have seen me this afternoon storming out of #uk.

>I was fuming, and I am not sure if I made any sense with what I may
>have said there. I was really fucking angry, and someone near to me
>noted that my keyboard was about to disintegrate into pieces because
>the way I was typing - well hitting it.
>
>I only went to irc for a different (albeit related) reason: because i
>realised that the 'No Justice' feature had gone up. I realised that it
>was showing in publish but not in the mirrors yet, so I was going to
>propose to remove it for a bit, to hold on for another day, and then
>publish it. I preferred to have the Oaxaca  one on top a bit longer. I
>was going to propose this not only because I though the Oaxaca story is

>more imminent (uk week of action starting in a few days, latest
>developments down there, and so on) but also because I may take for
>granted a sort of unwritten 'features  etiquette' that I've always
>followed:
>
>To me, when a new feature goes up, it should be left on top for a bit
>unless something 'big' happens at the same time. I don't know, at the
>current turn over of features, maybe for two days before a new one goes

>up?. Or at least 24h hours. I guess it's about the urgency of the newer

>one. Mainly because I think that many of imc-uk visitors don't use the
>site every single day. Also, people puts time and effort into writing
>them, and to have it down the page just after a few hours (like it
>happened with this one) it is not on imo. But anyway this is a
>different matter, that could possibly be solved by a less linear front
>page, but which escapes what I am getting at in this mail. In any case,

>I'd like to suggest to respect some sort of 'breathing space' between
>new features being published.
>
>So, when I came to irc I did not know anything about this log (i hadn't

>checked emails yet) nor that the feature had been removed for a little
>while by ben, and then been put back online (by the way it wasn't me ..

>i did not know anything about any of this) I've said it before, i do
>not spend all my time online in front of the computer. I is something
>that I do *not* do, nor I have any plans to do in the near future. I
>fact, I have never done it during all these years I've been
>contributing to imc, and I guess I have contributed (like many others)
>my bit. Actually, as I am on this subject, it may be worth to mention
>that every time i jump into #uk I see a long list of folk sitting
>there, but, please correct me if I am wrong, it seems that few do any
>actual work (be it tech development or maintenance, wire monitoring,
>feature writing and so on) It seems to be always the same few. So yup,
>I suppose that it could be said that the ratio between time spent
>logged onto irc, and actual work being done in imcuk doesn't often
>correspond. But yes, i guess this is, again, another matter.
>
>So, I jump on irc and I find this discussion with luna about the Oaxaca

>story. Chris points me to the irc log below, and the first thing i read

>is:
>
>> 00:56 < luna> you have to change that feature!
>> 00:56 < luna> its racist
>
>Well, I wrote this feature, therefore I find it difficult not to take
>this personally. To be accused of racist is something that I do not
>take slightly. Racist fuckers write racist articles. In the Uk we have
>enough tabloids to testify that. And this is something that I
>definitely do not set out to do. Luna i know you are very passionate
>about grass roots struggles (so I am in fact) and I know that you have
>been following closely events in Mexico (mainly in the southern states)

>for a long time. Great. But to hammer people with this kind of language

>speaks very little of this passion.
>
>I've actually just gone back to the site, and I still find the same
>feature exactly as I left it yesterday (albeit down the page). None of
>the outrageously 'racist' bits in it have been changed, .. ah no sorry,

>it wasn't racist bits, rather the feature was racist. Well, it still
>shows. But none of the real information luna seems to know about has
>been included, or errors changed. Why? As I can't see how it is racist,

>nor I think its "enphasis is on white appoturista jounalists " or "in
>what the mass media is turning into leaders", i'll refrain to make any
>changes myself, just in case i made it even more racist, or more
>glorifying journos or leaders.
>
>But maybe i'll explain myself better by answering some of luna's
>comments below:
>
>On Wednesday, December 6, 2006, at 09:12  am, Chris wrote:
>
>> I don't know how many people saw this:
>>
>> Day changed to 06 Dec 2006
>> 00:53 -!- luna [luna at localhost] has joined #uk
>> 00:54 < luna> hi anyone up that worked in the feature?
>> 00:55 < luna> heloooooo
>> 00:56 < luna> yossarian, starx, maki
>> 00:56 < luna> you have to change that feature!
>> 00:56 < luna> its racist
>
>Uff ... ok .. I haven't read this! :-)
>
>> 00:58 < luna> jesus there are 500 ppl arrested and dissapeared, most
>> indians
>
>Err... simple ... just add the number 500 in this paragraph:
>
>"APPO is a grassroots movement organising for popular democracy, and it

>is currently at the centre of the Mexican government's latest wave of
>repression, which has already resulted in  mass illegal arrests [Flavio

>Sosa's arrest | more] and the 'disappearance' of up to 100 people [APPO

>Communique | APPO activist interview | Eyewitness report]."
>
>Note, change 100 for 500.
>
>> 00:58 < luna> please listen to this
>> 00:59 < luna> oscar beard has no clue of what is going on in oaxaca,
>> he has spent all his time in San cristobal de las casas which is
>> hundreds of miles away and is now in mexico city or on his way
>
>I know Chiapaa is a different state form Oaxaca. I also know that
>Oscard Beard has not been in Oaxaca. He has not claimed to have been
>either by the way. His reports are mostly about / from San Cristobal de

>las Casas. But as I said well above, in my view both issues are
>interconnected, and a *most* of the reports he has sent back are in a
>way or another related to the uprising in Oaxaca. One of my favorites,
>by the way, contains a video of the Zapatista road blockades in San
>Cristobal on the day of action of road blockades called by the ezln in
>support of Oaxaca uprising and APPO's struggle. Sorry, I do see these
>quite linked. Or maybe it is just the way i understand it, it could be.

>But I did the feature. Not you.
>
>> 01:00 < luna> there has been no riots in df, but a lot more going on,

>> which he doesnt know, and a text message is no way of making reports
>
>The way he does his reports is his problem, not for me (or you) to
>judge. If, at times, he has used txt messages, my reading is that this
>was the easiest technology available to him in a given situation. I am
>saying that because years back, for example, we covered an EU summit in

>Brussels, in almost real time, by exclusively using mobile txts to send

>the info. But again, I don't think that to shot, edit and post videos
>in the wire can be described as "no way of making reports".
>
>And if there are currently riots in df that you know of, why is this
>not included in the feature yet? And i you don't have a log in to add
>it yourself, you could always use your time in irc to pass this info,
>couldn't you? - i mean, in a way similar way as you amazingly did when
>transcribing radio APPO when the shit hit the fan in Oaxaca last month.
>
>> 01:01 < luna> what is going on in oaxaca is a lot LOT LOT more
>> frightening that what is being said there
>
>So, I guess you think I rather had done a forensic detailed report of
>the situation then. Well:
>a) i didn't have the time.
>b) no-one else seem to have neither ... or could be arsed.
>c) i didn't have the space to do it. as it is, the feature is already
>quite long.
>d) maybe you could enlighten us about all this using the 'comments'?
>
>> 01:03 < luna> and the enphasis should not be on white appoturista
>> ;jounalists nor in what the mass media is turning into  'leaders'
>
>Two things;
>
>1.- The emphasis is on the repression in Oaxaca. Basically the
>repression sufferend by APPOistas, and also that suffered by
>independent media. At least this is the intention. It actually also
>tries to give a glimpse of how the situation may be developing in
>Mexico soon. That's why it links to the ezln's latest communiques, and
>it also to calls to solidarity actions, both in the uk and worldwide.
>
>2.- Leaders. The main reason why the feature mentions Flavio Sosa's
>arrest is because these reports were the newer ones received in the
>wire about Oaxaca - one of them posted by you luna. It is a common
>practice that when doing new features these include, amongst others,
>the latest reports that appear in the wire about that same issue. It is

>quite logical in my opinion.
>
>In any case,  I did not only include Flavio Sosa's arrest, but also all

>the other articles that kept appearing in the wire yesterday (4 or 5 i
>think)  The link to your report about Sosa's arrest, is added
>immediately  after the sentence: "and it is currently at the centre of
>the Mexican government's latest wave of repression, which has already
>resulted in mass illegal arrests" [link] And then it follows with: "and

>the 'disappearance' of up to 100 people" .. ok 500. I think the
>emphasis is on the mass arrests and the disappearances not Sosa's
>arrest. Had I got a report talking about these, it would have been
>included too of course. Had you, me or anyone else published a report
>putting Flavio Sosa's arrest in the context of the other 500 arrests
>(which the other links do btw) i would have also included it.
>
>And as I am at it, luna, cheers but you don't need to remind me of the
>dangers of 'leaders' being made scapegoats, nor about the fact that
>corporate media - and governments - often construct these to downplay
>grassroots mass movements. Give us some fucking credit!
>
>> 01:03 < luna> but on the grassroots resistance and repression and
>> ahiquilation of the popular movement
>
>ditto. and ditto too .. if you think can do it better, please do.
>
>> 01:05 < luna> pls hae a look at this
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oaxacastudyactiongroup/message/2032
>
>ok, ta.
>
>> 01:06 < luna> a letter from Al Gi, summs up some issues, very
>> important n oaxaca, tho is stays short.
>> 01:08 < luna> point is 500 arrests, dissapeared and dead...what do you
>
>> think that would do to a movement? how scared do you think "normal",
>> indygenous and poor, but fighting ppl in oaxaca are?
>
>Shitless. Well I would be anyhow. But are you trying to tell me that I
>omit these facts on purpose?! .. Uff .. hot blood running up to ma
>brain again!! ... I hope you are not!.
>I think the feature already says this anyhow. As I said just change the

>100 by 500. You probably won't so I'll end up doing it. np.
>
>> 01:08 < luna> the people in the videos?
>> 01:14 < chrisc> luna: email imc-uk-features at lists.indymedia.org
>
>sorry i don't understand this.
>
>> 01:14  * chrisc gotta go sleep...
>
>me too! :-)
>
>> 01:17 < luna> fcuk
>
>oh! .. luna fashion branding, are you!? :-p
>But yup i've also said the same word too many times today already.
>
>> 01:20 < luna> give up the leader shit and the star 007journalist shit,
>
>> its real mexicans we are talking about. learn  something from buenos
>> aires!
>
>Fo fucks sake!. Well you give up your patronising shit too man! And try

>to learn to control your impulses too. We don't need that sort of crap.

>And if you have so much to enlighten us, why don't you try a feature?.
>And if you won't, at least give us some fucking credit. And if you are
>not prepared to do that, then at least shut up.
>
>Well, I'm sorry everyone if I ranted for so long - if anyone made it
>that far. To me the bottom line is to work in an opposite way as
>capitalism forces us into functioning all the time - individually and
>in isolation. To do it in a collaborative way, with respect and
>solidarity is a form of resistance and struggle in itself. Otherwise
>why fucking bother?
>
>Ok, salut! to all
>
>maqui
>
>
>--
>Indymedia United Kollektives editorial: features and wire moderation
>http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-uk-features



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