[Imc-uk-features] From Gilad Atzmon on the debate you are having

[mary rizzo]

(Dear Ftp, I am sending this for Gilad, since he 
hasn't got a stable internet connection. He asked 
if you could kindly publish this on the list 
where the discussion is going on.- Mary)

Dear FTP and the rest of you


I would prefer to spare myself from debating Mr 
Greenstein, I have done it in the past and do not 
see a point in doing it anymore.

However, Yossarian’s reading of my materials is 
far more concerning and I would like to address it briefly.

Yossarian refers to a paper of mine ("Protocols 
of the Elders of Zion (Verse 2)” which he finds “disturbing”.

I am indeed critical of any form of Jewish 
politics (left, right and centre). The reason is 
rather simple: I am opposing any form of identity 
politics grounded on racial belonging. I oppose 
someone who calls himself a Jewish Marxist as 
much as I would oppose another who defines 
himself an Aryan socialist (Nazi). I will make it 
clear that I have no problem whatsoever with a 
Marxist who happens to be a Jew. I have no 
problem as well with Torah Jews, with those Jews 
who interpret the Judaic call as an ethical endeavor.

Yossarian probably fails to realise that in my 
writings I differentiate between Judaism 
(religion), Jews (the people) and Jewishness 
(ideology). I have no problem with Judaism and 
Jews, yet I have some major difficulty with 
Jewishness, the ideology that is based on some 
different forms of racial supremacy 
(Chosenness).  It may as well be crucial to 
remind you all that in my entire body of work 
there is not a single reference to Jews as a 
racial entity. I am solely concerned with 
Jewishnes. I am scrutinising Jewish identity and 
Jewish political identity in particular.  The 
issue of race is simply ‘non existent’ in my writings!!!

Yossarian refers to me saying:

"his arguments that there is a Zionist plan to 
dominate the world do seem to me to be disturbing.”

I agree with you Yossarian, it is indeed very 
very disturbing, but I believe that your job is 
to expose it rather than to silence it. More to 
the point, the work of the Israeli lobby in 
America is now out in the open thanks to some 
major American academics such as James Petras, 
John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. The book about 
the Israeli Lobby was recently circulated in the 
NY Times. It is slightly embarrassing that 
Yossarian of UK Indy Media is just slightly 
behind a major conservative American paper on the topic.

Devastated Yossarian is quoting me saying:

I) "Zionism is a very singular political method 
aimed at perfecting the transformation of world 
disasters and human pain into Jewish gain,(GA)"

Gilad: Dear Yossarian, why don’t you go and learn 
the subject first?  You may want to start with 
Herzl and the notion of political Zionism. In 
case you get lost I can always provide you with 
the right texts. You can probably continue with 
Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of Dictators. 
Though Brenner is far from being a professional 
historian, he is a fabulous archivist. You can 
learn from him how Zionists capitalised on the Holocaust.

In case you do not want to go that far back I can 
provide you all with the AJC (American Jewish 
Committee) recent promotion pack for ‘a war against Iran’


Would it be enough to establish a case?

Devastated Yossarian quotes me saying:

II) "Zionist lobbies have managed to 
comprehensively dominate the major sources that 
control American public opinion: both in culture, 
in media and in finance (GA)"

Gilad : I suggest to you, Yossarian, to read the 
following 
link. 
<http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html>http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html 


I really start to wonder whether you live on the 
same planet the rest of us do
.

Yossarian is quoting me saying:

III)  "America is about to lose its 
sovereignty...After so many years of 
Independence, the United States of America is 
becoming a remote colony of an apparently far 
greater state, the Jewish state."

Gilad: Indeed, becoming an Israeli mission force 
fighting some idiotic neocon wars against Iraq, 
Syria and Iran serves Israeli interest 
only.  Unless you, Yossarian, can suggest otherwise.

Yossarian says:

“I am happy enough for people to analyze the 
institutional role of AIPAC and other lobby 
groups when it comes to US foreign policy 
formation, in fact I think that's quite a 
legitimate thing to do.  However, he skips over 
that part completely - he doesn't do much 
intellectual heavy lifting, he just takes it as a 
given that "Zionists" control the media, US 
foreign policy, culture, and finance, and that 
they want to take over the world. No evidence is 
cited for any of this, it's just all stated as fact.”

Gilad: why don’t you now tell us Mr Yossarian 
where AIPAC stops and where Zionism 
starts.  Please enlighten me and the rest of the 
world about the subject because as far as we can 
see, AIPAC is nothing but a manifestation of the 
Zionist infrastructure.  You just fail to 
understand that: AIPAC, ADL, ZIONISM, BUND, JEWS 
FOR PEACE AND JEWS AGAINST PEACE, JEWS FOR THAT 
AND JEWS  AGAINST SOMETHING ELSE are all 
different formations of some Judeo centric 
racially orientated tribal political identities. 
They all serve a similar cause, and this cause 
is  ‘the Jewish people’. Though they have 
different plans for the Jewish people and the 
rest of the world, they all separate between Jews 
and Humanity. And I think that this is very 
wrong!!! I may as well suggest to you, Yossarian 
that if you do not think that this is very wrong, 
it is actually me who doesn't want to be on your site!

I suggest to you, Yossarian and others that you 
spend some time learning about the subject 
because at the moment you just spread some old 
liberal clichés that prove some severe lack of 
understanding of the entire issue and its complexity.

Referring to the Q whether to remove my piece or 
to leave it on. As you probably realize, this 
very piece was translated into 7 languages, it 
appeared on almost every left magazine around the 
world and probably every Palestinian one. It was 
circulated to millions of people, If you remove 
it due to the pressure of this sad Tony 
Greenstein, a man who was recently humiliated at 
the PSC AGM for trying to silence others, it will 
reflect badly on you rather than me.

Please go ahead.

All the very best
Gilad Atzmon  
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