[Imc-uk-features] withdrawing from the list

[maqui]

Hiya yossarian, startx, ftp and all...

I had been away from the lists for a few days, so it took me a while to 
catch up with all this discussion.

On Thursday, November 8, 2007, at 02:16  am, yossarian wrote:

> My commitment to Indymedia, which has been my primary political vehicle
> for the past seven years, has been quite shaken by the events of this
> past year.  I still see a lot of potential for Indymedia, even after 
> all
> this time, but the way things are going lately I'm not too confident 
> for
> the future.   Instead of getting involved in further debilitating and
> time-consuming discussions via email, I'll try and contribute something
> on a different level and hope that things will have improved by the 
> time
> that I've had something of a rest,

Well, I can't say I am happy to see yossarian's and startx's 
'resignation' mails. I find it quite disempowering, and actually quite 
disturbing too, that two very committed compas feel that they are "not 
functioning on the same planet as the rest of the most active site
admins", and thus, they don't have a choice but to 'quit' the project 
they've (along many others) helped so much throughout the years. Note, 
I say "quit" in inverted commas, because I am hopeful that this won't 
be the case completely. In fact I know that yossarian will still be 
very much engaged at a london level, and I do hope startx finds a way 
back to imcuk when things move on. I don't only say this for the record 
in a public list, but because I have a great deal of respect to both, 
and moreover, I have always felt that there's quite a lot of affinity 
between their politics and pov and mine.

Also, I think i should mention that ftp has contributed immensely in 
maintaining and administering the imc-uk website. He's genuinely spent 
countless hours logged in admin making sure the wires are as relevant 
to the ethos of the project as possible (as stated in the current ed. 
guidelines). In any admin activity within indy there's a degree of 
subjectivity (hence the openness of the project) and I believe ftp has 
always been committed to transparency in his actions. That deserves my 
respect too.

I am saying this because I think no-one is to blame about the 
disagreements there have been in this list lately. Nor it is ftp's 
'fault' that yossarian and startx have decided to stand aside for a 
while.  People have expressed their opinions in this debate, and as 
ab's mentioned somewhere, i think the debate (apart from the annoying 
alien demanding emails)  has been more interesting than the issue of 
whether Atzmon's article is anti-semitic or not. The problem though is 
that, in my opinion, the "culture and the content" in the list is 
shifting to terrains that can eventually destroy the project.

As for the article itself, had it not been brought to my attention I 
would most probably have missed it in the wire. This is not the sort of 
stuff i'm personally looking for in indymedia.  I don't claim to be an 
expert in this issue at all, but after having read it now I must agree 
that it has a strong smell of prejudice attached to it. Talk about 
jewish lobbies running the world sits far too comfortably within the 
anti-semitic milieu. Obviously the article (any article) can be 
forensically examined word by word and construct any narratives one 
wants to construct out of them, but to me the overall feel to it would 
warrant a hiding, specially when I see other voices here that i trust 
expressing the same.

Finally, I must say that I am sick of people suddenly jumping in here 
form nowhere and 'demanding' indymedia uk does this or that. Specially 
when they are usually people nowhere to be seen in the day to day 
running of the site, or in any other aspect of the project outside the 
web. People that, in their practices, normally show a great deal of 
ignorance about the ethos of Indymedia, the political importance of 
consensus decision making processes, or interest in any collective form 
of action. Let's not accept more demands like these, nor threats or 
abusive language or lectures coming from positions far above and 
beyond. Let's not get hijacked by personal battles. If people want to 
wage their political wars they can always set up a blog somewhere, or 
use one of the countless forums out there.

So, I too support Tony's proposal to take some time off with this, get 
people to meet and talk about the issues, and then bring focussed 
proposals to this list that could possibly bring the collective closer 
together in consensus. This would also be good preparatory work for any 
live to live discussions to be had in the next network meeting. To me 
this list is not a discussion forum, nor a place to wage ideological 
battles. I've always seen the features lists as a 'workshop', a working 
space whether the admin and editorial content of the website takes 
place. And as tony notices, since this debate started, the middle 
column of the front page has been static with the top feature now being 
over 3 weeks old.

Cheers, and sorry for the length of this, but it just came out like 
that.

maqui

=============
GENERAL RANT:

I have not participated at at all in the last discussion in the list 
although i have have followed it, more or less, and so i'm aware of the 
issues and what are the main conflicting points. The main reason why I 
haven't is that I just can't follow it up. I can't afford to use all my 
'active imc' time exclusivelly reading long emails, that contain far 
too many links that take me to too many articles which are, in turn, 
far too long - - still reading this!? :-p I just don't have the time 
(and probably the inclination too) to dive into such an amount of 
material about a single subject, one that btw, is not high in my list 
of priorities anyway. The same as yossarian i am quite frustrated about 
"the culture and content of the network's mail lists". For culture i 
read: a perennial confrontational and antagonistic attitude to each 
other of the type "i think this as opposite to you think that", almost 
if we were were part of a different project.

I miss a working environment (which is basically what the process, 
network, and features lists are in fact imo) where we are able to 
understand and respect that this is an open project, and that as a 
consequence, people will not see eye to eye with many issues, and that, 
sometimes, the individuals involved will have different political 
interests and priorities. But that still, people will chose to 
concentrate on what unites us and what is best for the project (keep 
building up a working alternative) instead of continuously closing 
ranks with one's own views on specific issues. For that there exist 
blogs where one doesn't have to negotiate and navegate his/her own way 
in a sea of not always common views. That's probably one of the reasons 
why blogging has become so prominent and central to contemporary 
communications, because it is much easier to agree with oneself than 
with a kollektive.

For me the collective aspect of IMC is one of the most interesting 
aspects of it. I've said it before, for me to work like we (normally 
:-) do in indy, and for so frickin' long, signifies (becomes a living 
proof) that there are different possible ways of working outside the 
narrow mindeness and individuality capitalism forces us into. The fact 
that it has survived so many years (whilst being central to the 
struggle(s)) by being a very diverse and open project, it's a living 
proof of this, even with all its flaws. To destroy this 'culture' at a 
UK level because there are different views on, for example, what 
constitutes antisemitism, new-antisemitism, or any other description of 
the subject, it seems to me like loosing; yet another defeat in what we 
claim this fucking other world may (or could) be like.

Why is it that a posting by that Giztmo person, or 'demands' by people 
basically interested in their personal battles can cause so much rift 
when, at the same time, there seems to be not enough collective drive 
for evolving the site (re-thinking OP within the Web V2.0 craze, 
etc..), organising network meetings, or move on with the server issues? 
Surely things like these three examples should be the focus of the 
people working on the same project. These are issues that directly 
relate to the health and relevance of Indymedia. Whether I think that 
what someone writes in the wire is too much this or too little that 
should not eclipse the fundamentals of the project imo. We all have our 
hate pets, and we all feel very passionate about some issues, or think 
less of other subjects, but that's inevitable in an environment such as 
indy. Remember, this is still and evolving experiment. No one knows 
where it will get to in the future, where it will succeed in 
maintaining it's relevance and usefulness, but because it is just that, 
an evolving experiment, it is much more interesting and *radical* than 
banging on personal locked positions, individualistic ways of 
functioning, or already known discourses and practices. We have already 
won, in the sense, that we have already proved that it is possible to 
do it openly, transparently and horizontally. At the en of the day, we 
all still believe in radical, grass roots and participatory form of 
media making, as a form of political engagement towards a life beyond 
fucking capitalism. This is, in my view, enough to keep trying it.

I think i am just rambling with quite disconnected thoughts, so I 
better leave it here. But I had to take it out ma chest sort of thing. 
I went the features list after almost a week, and I found two 
consecutive mails of two compas of mine saying that they are 'quitting' 
(again note the inverted commas! :-p. So I get a shock and I 
immediately feel a sense of failure ... which it fucks me, big time.

I hope both yossarian and startx will reconsider this after they've had 
a break. I also hope that, even if they are quitting now the lists, 
they'll still be involved in any upcoming network meeting, as I think 
it'd be a much better context to address differences. Email lists have 
always felt to me such a crap place for bringing consensus where there 
are big anatgonistic positions.

Anyway, now I am definitely going ...

see you all

maqui