[Imc-uk-features] GILAD ATZMON'S LETTER TO INDYMEDIA UK (AS YET NOT ONLINE)

[phunkee]

Hi,

Contray to calls from people to wrap up the debate on the features list 
about Greenstein vs. Atzmon, I think it's worth posting Gilad Atzmon's 
and Mary Rizzo's 'letters' to Indymedia UK, which i understand haven't 
been allowed through to the list. His letter also outlines some of the 
harrassement Ftp has had to endure during the course of this 'exchange'.

In Solidarity,

phunkee

http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/

GILAD ATZMON'S LETTER TO INDYMEDIA UK (AS YET NOT ONLINE)

Dear Indymedia list members

I think that you are now having a close range opportunity to learn about 
the world of aggressive Zionist lobbying. You are a subject to some 
major assault led by ethnic campaigner Mr. Tony Greenstein. I understand 
those amongst you who feel as if their private lives had been torn 
apart. I am totally familiar with this man’s lack of manners and lack of 
respect for others’ privacy. I know all about it. The man has been 
stalking others and me for years. As a rule, I would suggest to you that 
if you decide to address Greenstein’s ranting seriously, you better 
follow the links he kindly provides and read the original quotes within 
their context. As far as my writings are concerned, I always do my best 
to differentiate between people and ideology. I do harshly criticise 
Jewishness, yet I avoid any form of criticism of Jewish people or of 
Judaism.

As you are probably aware of by now, Greenstein and his ilk have been 
trying to cleanse me from the Palestinian Solidarity discourse for three 
years. So far all they managed to do is to marginalise themselves 
probably beyond repair. The reason is simple. Although they insist upon 
suggesting that I am a “racist”, in the entirety of my work there is not 
a single reference whatsoever to race. I oppose any form of racial 
categorisation and I restrict myself to politics, ideology and identity. 
Indeed, I do oppose any form of secular Jewish politics and Jewish 
ideology in general. It may be important to mention that unlike 
Greenstein, who was banned from several institutes for accusations of 
anti -Semitism as well as violence against Jews, I have never been 
banned from anywhere nor have I ever criticised Jews as people or a 
race! As you may realize, Jews do not form a race, yet Jewish identity 
is somehow racially orientated.

In my writings I am highly critical of Jewish politics (Left, Centre and 
Right) just because I am against any form of Jewish politics because it 
insists that it is racially orientated. I wonder whether you realise the 
devastating fact that the gentiles amongst your Indy media moderators 
cannot join Greenstein’s ‘Jews Against Zionism’ (JAZ) because you are 
not ‘racially or ethnically qualified’. As well, you are not welcome at 
‘Jews For Palestine’ or any other exclusive “Jewish Progressive” 
political group just because you fail to be listed amongst the 
‘chosens’. If you find the time and energy to do it, just ask Greenstein 
how many Goyim or Palestinian members he has on his JAZ list… So as it 
seems, a bunch of five subjects who operate solely in a racially 
segregated political cell are calling me a racist. I honestly cannot 
make up my mind whether this is funny or sad. I would say both.

However, I indeed believe that Zionism and Israel are just part of the 
problem in Palestine. I do believe that if Israel would be left alone to 
face its very many enemies in the region it would be very, very quick to 
change its spot and become a peace-seeking nation. However this is not 
going to happen because some very powerful lobbies around the world 
support Israel. It would be fair to say that Israel’s regional power is 
the outcome of its support by the majority of institutionalised Jewish 
political bodies. Hence, if we genuinely want to address the Palestinian 
suffering we must scrutinise that which makes Israel so powerful. We 
must learn in detail the amalgam of Zionist pressure groups. But then 
what a miracle, once we try to do that, a group of so-called 
‘progressive Jews’ insists upon silencing the topic. I think that by now 
you know a bit about the subject. You know how this mechanism works: a 
tiny group of irrelevant ethnic campaigners, people who didn’t 
contribute a single intellectual text to the Palestinian discourse for 
decades have managed to put pressure on you. They are trying to split 
you, to make you do things against your beliefs; this is very depressing 
to see; yet this is how the Jewish political world operates. Being 
myself an ex Jew, I am rather embarrassed to admit it.

I will try to open your eyes with a very simple analysis of the Jewish 
political identity. Let us assume that X is a Jewish political entity. X 
obviously feels free to act politically under a Jewish banner e.g. Jews 
for peace, Jews against Zionism, Jews for Zionism etc’. Yet, X would 
refuse to be criticised as a Jew. In other words, X assumes a lucid 
identity with a meaningful content yet he doesn’t allow anyone else to 
criticise this very identity. Isn’t it bizarre?

Dear list members, if you didn’t get it yet, I may make it very simple 
for you. This is the real meaning of Jewish ‘chosenness’; this is the 
essence of Jewish racial supremacy. It lets the political Jew believe 
that he is indeed better and far beyond criticism: Greenstein and his 
clan are operating as Jews, assuming that there is something in their 
Jewishness that allows them a special exclusive entitlement e.g. Jews 
against Zionism or Jews for Peace. This is obviously fine, yet once you 
criticise them as being an exclusive racially orientated setting they 
outrageously accuse you of being racist. In Short: Greenstein entitles 
himself to act as a Jewish political activist but he insists as well 
upon banning anyone else, whether a gentile or even me (an ex Jew) to 
question what his Jewishness may stand for.

Questions concerning Judaic Worldview

I was rather surprised to learn that Greenstein, once a religiously 
educated boy, fails to know what the Judaic worldview is all about. 
Seemingly, I will have to remind him as well as enlighten you about the 
subject. In the ‘Judaic worldview’ there is no room for grey areas. 
Instead there is a clear black and white division between: RIGHT and 
WRONG, KOSHER and TAREF. God and false idols. In the Judaic worldview 
clear binary oppositions are set to differentiate between Good and Bad: 
One God/many idols; Truth/false; West/ the rest; Left/fascists; Us/the 
others. Within the Judaic worldview it is always us who are right and 
they who are wrong. As I mention in my paper, the Judaic worldview is an 
ideology, it is a mindset. Many Jews do not succumb to this ideology, 
thank God for that. It is rather concerning to find out how many 
non-Jews succumb to this ideology. For those amongst you who fail to 
see, it is this very element of self-centred righteousness that made 
Neo-conservatism into such a threatening movement.

Along the years very many Jewish intellectuals and humanists stood 
against the Judaic Worldview and the 3 first names that come to mind are 
obviously: Jesus, Spinoza and Marx. Astonishingly enough, Greenstein and 
his ilk are nothing but orthodox followers of the most extreme 
manifestation of Judaic Worldview in its ugliest form. As you can read, 
Tony Greenstein ‘knows what Racism is’ if you do not agree with him, you 
are nothing but a racist and a fascist. As his ideological twin Roland 
Rance wrote in an offlist email to FTP, if you are not with us, you are 
not in the ‘left’ - as if five British racially orientated political 
activists know better than you what left is all about.

As we all know, the extreme form of this very binary opposition leads 
towards crucifixion. As sad as it may sound, the group of people who 
assault you at the moment are doing nothing but nailing intellectuals 
and Palestinian solidarity institutions to the wood. They did it to Jeff 
Blankfort, one of the prominent American Palestinian Solidarity 
activists, they do the same to Mary Rizzo, probably one of the most 
adorable activists in Italy, they did it to Paul Eisen and Israel 
Shamir, these people have managed to crush DYR, probably the most 
successful Palestinian gathering in this country. These people had tried 
to divert the Palestinian solidarity movement and to turn it into a 
Judeo centric witch-hunt crusade. They believe that fighting 
anti-Semitism is a Palestinian priority.

I myself believe that 70% starvation in Gaza is the real issue to 
address. If this turns me into a Holocaust denier I can easily live with 
it. A few months ago this bunch of people were spat out humiliatingly at 
the PSC AGM 
(http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2007/03/report-on-2-failed-motions-by.html). 
The Palestinian solidarity movement around the world is a dynamic fueled 
by genuine empathic feelings. It changes and shapes by events. It is now 
concerned more and more with the tragedy that is taking place in front 
of our eyes rather than the Jewish Holocaust, which occurred more than 
60 years ago. I do realise that the Greensteins of this world are 
devastated by it. It seems as if their racially exclusive political 
identity is losing its validity.

Blaming The Jews

“You useless piece of shit. And you complain of bullying tactics whilst 
betraying a woeful ignorance of racism. What a wanker you are, whoever 
you are.”

(Mark Elf Jews Sans Frontieres, on an offlist email to Indy media 
Moderator FTP)

The above leads us to the Holocaust and questions concerning its real 
meaning. What is its real meaning? Is there just a single meaning? 
Within the Zionist worldview in which Greenstein, Machover, Rance and 
Elf apparently succumb to, ‘European Jewry were a bunch of wonderful 
innocent subjects who fell victims to a vicious regime who picked on 
them out of the blue’. In fact I do not aim to interfere with such an 
interpretation. Instead I suggest that every historical event (Nazi 
Judeocide included) may entail far more than just a single 
interpretation and meaning.

I, for instance, would expect Jews to learn a lesson from their 
destruction. I would expect Jews to ask themselves how come people 
employ so many vicious tactics against us, why is it that people hate us 
so much? As sad as it may sound, the abuse performed by Israel in 
Palestine is no different categorically to the abuse performed by Mr 
Mark Elf, against FTP. Indeed FTP survived it while a Palestine kid is 
probably far less lucky, yet it is the ultimate negligence of the Other 
that strikes me. I may admit that I’ve been living in the UK for 14 
years, and it is only the Jewish cyber cells (which I monitor regularly) 
where I find the ultimate possible violent verbal expression.

As I learn from reading your thread, Greenstein has being assaulting 
each of you for the last days interfering with your privacy. May I 
suggest that is this very vicious campaigning and total intolerance that 
makes Zionist lobbies so hated and this applies to Zionists as well 
crypto Zionists such as JAZ (who aim at silencing any criticism of the 
Jewish Lobby in America). For me, every Historical chapter is a message 
in a bottle. We have to open and re open the bottle, we have to let the 
historical chapters reshape themselves and we have to let ourselves be 
reshaped by them. History is meaningful as long as it reflects on our 
present and future. If Greenstein would exhaust his limited intellectual 
capacity and read the entire paragraph (that he wants so much to hide) 
he may have learn something:

“Clearly, the Zionist interpretation is engaged with nothing more than 
the concrete symptom, with the simplest manifestation of the animosity 
that surrounds it rather than with the core of the problem itself. 
Hitler was indeed defeated, Jews are now more than welcome in Germany 
and in Europe, yet, the Jewish state and the sons of Israel are at least 
as unpopular in the Middle East as their grandparents were in Europe 
just six decades ago. Seemingly, it is the personification of WW2 and 
the Holocaust that blinded the Israelis and their supporters from 
internalising the real meaning of the conditions and the events that led 
towards their destruction in the first place…” (Gilad Atzmon The Hunters 
of Goliath)

And here is the lesson: Would Tony Greenstein understand the real 
meaning of the Holocaust, he and his 5 Racially exclusive comrades would 
prevent themselves from the humiliation that occurred to them a few 
months ago at the PSC AGM.

“Seemingly, it is the personification of WW2 and the Holocaust that 
blinded Greenstein & Co from internalising the real meaning of the 
conditions and the events that led towards their growing unpopularity.”

Would mark Elf understand the meaning of the Holocaust he would stop 
himself from calling an innocent Indy media moderator he doesn’t agree 
with a “Wanker” and a “Fuckwit”. Sorry for mentioning it, I just can’t 
get over it. The meaning of the Holocaust is preventing the Holocaust in 
Palestine and Iraq. The Meaning of the Holocaust is preventing the 
already planned Holocaust in Iran. Yet the AJC (American Jewish 
Committee) and the Israeli Lobby are promoting a war against Iran and it 
is the Greensteins of this world who try to prevent us from dealing with 
the issue. This says it all. Some racially orientated Jews who for some 
reason call themselves ‘progressive’ indeed learned nothing.

It is never too late
Inshallah they get it right soon.
All the best

Gilad Atzmon

INDYMEDIA ARCHIVES
http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-features/2007-November/date.html

MARY RIZZO'S POST TO INDYMEDIA (AS YET NOT ONLINE)

Tony Greenstein says: "And just one final point. I’m not going to reply 
to the ramblings of Mary Rizzo, though I would certainly stand by my 
opposition to suicide bombings in Israel, even if that means criticising 
Hamas."

I say. Of course he isn't going to respond, because he'd have to come 
out being the most inconsistent being on the planet and it's pretty 
difficult for him to defend what he said and come out looking 
respectable. The fact that Tony has written that he does not respect, 
nor should he, the Palestinians, that he gives a toss about their vote, 
that Fatah "at least" was secular, (therefore, they would have been 
better, a choice that -ahem- only the electorate is able to determine), 
that the victory of Hamas should be equated with the victory of Hitler 
in Germany.... it's pretty amazing, and I would love to see him say this 
on a board or site run by Palestinians. Secular or not, they would run 
him out of the room. This is why he confines his activities to the 
Jewish or UK cyber spheres. Not only is it outrageous and completely 
insulting to a people that is FAR more politicised than Tony himself 
will ever be, and would know better than he would what suits them, it is 
a-historical and wrong.

That he was endorsing violating a cultural boycott he was even 
promoting, that he most certainly knows what is good for Palestinians, 
and what is good, obviously, is what will be accepted by a faction he 
identifies himself with in Israel. As if the Palestinians are puppets 
who must earn respect, respect which has a set of conditions around it. 
That he does not campaign for the Right of Return (I can't remember him 
ever calling for it) makes one wonder if he understands the 
Palestinians' situation and aspirations at all. All of this alone should 
be reason enough that those of us actively involved in Pro-Palestinian 
actions and campaigns have to keep him well beyond arms' length. He is 
precisely the WORST sort of person to be dictating what should be 
happening in "the world of solidarity". Most activists have gotten wise 
to him, and this is a relief, but his litany, repeated ad nauseam just 
like the Queen of Hearts "Off with their heads!!" makes him a character 
that is almost as laughable as he is disgusting. Both sensations compete 
for predominance. When one is, like I have been for ages, subject to his 
abuse, one simply gets used to it, but has to remind oneself that not 
everyone else is prepared for the disgusting rain of verbal abuse and 
plain uppityness that he unleashes. Other people have to be warned about 
what he is.

Again, referring to this single phrase of Tony, no one is promoting 
terrorism or suicide bombings, and Tony instrumentally links Hamas with 
suicide bombings. If he knew any STATISTICS, he'd see that they are not 
directly implicated in them! That they have also distanced themselves 
from them, and that it was indeed the Hamas that had held the truce 
longer than any other political party, including the Israelis. His 
disinformation is straight out of the annals of the neocons, if not 
straight into the laps of the theories of the Islamophobes. What's 
Tony's Agenda? To isolate the Gazans and Palestinians even more from a 
resolution to their problem? Is this the way he's going to spread 
socialism to the Arabs who he doesn't respect for their political 
illiteracy, when they are not outright religiously oriented.

They should have caved in long ago, according to Tony, and voted for a 
party that has NO consensus and no nationalist vision, because the value 
of their socialism was intrinsic and "of course" the Westerners in the 
far left parties of Europe would have defended them. What a load of 
steaming crap.

If all of his intolerance of Palestinians and lack of respect for them 
weren't enough, he denies there is a lobby, he attempts to shut up 
anyone who dare mention this FACT, he smears and distorts in order to 
push his own very grey agenda of some kind of socialism that is not 
relevant to Palestinians. Why doesn't he spend his time better, trying 
to improve the Israeli society? That would be at least a target he could 
reach. I'd let him go any way he wanted with his harebrained schemes if 
that was his campaign. Our paths would never cross either. I don't 
bother with Israeli progressives. The best ones are those like Dorothy 
Naor who when I asked about the boycott said, "boycott me, please". They 
aren't looking for internal consensus among the "progressive Israelis". 
They have realised that the victims are our priority and the victims are 
the Palestinians. Whatever it takes to support them, that is what we 
have to stand for.

Indymedia moderators caving in to someone like that would be quite a 
pity, because it would have resonance in internet, where the 
Palestinians are at some level respected and supported with passion and 
dedication. It would put Indymedia on "the other side" of the 
Palestinians. And, obviously, he wonders why his letters aren't given 
major space. It is so self-evident, that it's not even worth questioning 
why. Why is Tony never published anywhere? Because his stuff is 
unreadable, contradictory and venomous. It is only print-worthy in minor 
jewish leftist things like Socialist Unity, or CIF, where the Zionists 
seem to dictate what goes up. I think Tony is the only one that is 
oblivious to this.
mary