[IMC-UK-Features] Feature proposal: relationship of climatic & economic crises

[Ben Aylott]

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Im going to repost the criticisms of this proposal which have been made
on we r n here :
https://we.riseup.net/imc-uk/what-does-the-economic-crisis-mean-for-the-climate
 (in case anyone wasnt aware it was on we r n).


Mark
Sunday
	

This still needs a picture, and might benefit from more links. Please
could people aim to make all contributions before the end of Weds 18th
Feb. It ties in with a series of meetings in Leeds with international
speakers.
Star-plus


Chris
Sunday
	

There are actually more than 2 crisis’ — take the 3 from the IFG’s
Global “Triple Crisis” Teach-In:

“Climate Change, Peak Oil, Global Resource Depletion & Extinction”
IFG Teach-In: Confronting the Global "Triple Crisis"

Then there is 4 that Nafeez Ahmed has talked about:

   1. Climate catastrophe
   2. Peak oil
   3. Food scarcity
   4. Economic instability

The Hidden Holocaust -- Civilizational Crisis, Part 3: The End Of The
World As We Know It?

So we have, climate change, peak oil (and gas etc – the energy crisis),
the economic collapse, mass extinction and the food and water crisis —
at least 5.

Also there are some other responses that should be (not uncritically)
mentioned the Transition Network and the Green New Deal…

I’ll dig up some more on this and add to the above…
Star-plus


Mark
Monday
	

I guess we could enumerate a lot of crises, but the point of the piece
was to make links between between the climate crisis and the economic
crisis, and focus for the opportunities for intervention and
re-narration presented in that nexus. Also I think it’s long enough
already. Chris, we should write a book maybe :) or another feat?

What do others think?
Star-plus


Chris
Monday
	

I think it’s very hard to talk about the climate crisis without touching
on the peak oil one — James Hansen and people like that always link them
these days. In addition I think the fundamental cause of the economic
collapse is peak oil.

I wasn’t planning a massive revision of the text just some additions,
ones which won’t make it very much longer than it is.

Mark have you listened / watched or read the two things I have cited
above — the IFG Teach-In material and the Hidden Holocaust lecture — if
you do I think you will agree that they are relevant…

Features are supposed to be collective articles — if you don’t want
anyone else to help with this text then perhaps it’s best published on
the newswire?

PS This page should be moved to the imc-uk group and made public?
Star-plus


phunkee
Tuesday
	

I think this proposed feature really needs some referencing. There’s a
lot of contested concepts and analysis.

I also think it would benefit from a more class-based analysis
Star-plus


Chris
Tuesday
	

How is this as a possible way forward?

   1. That the above article is either published on the newswire or as a
Leeds / Bradford feature, not a UK feature.
   2. That we start a new UK feature, Responses to the Crisis of Climate
Change, Economic Collapse and Peak Oil

The other responses the the crisis I’d like to write a bit about are the
Green New Deal and Transition Towns and one thing they miss out — class
— this is something that I have wanted to do for a while…

I think that between us we could produce an excellent feature article :-)
Star-plus


Mark
Tuesday
	

Thanks Chris and phunkee. We are having a constructive disagreement.

I think the things that both of you are suggesting would make it quite a
different article. It seems that these are the things that we disagree on:

   1. The IFG teach in and the Hidden Holocaust stuff was good, but it’s
out of date. Part of the point of this piece is to provoke new ways of
thinking about capital now that neo-liberalism is finished, which wasn’t
the case in 2007 or even early 2008.
   2. My view of class analysis is that it was a useful paradigm to
understand dialectical materialism before globalisation and has had no
relevance since about 1980.
   3. Having looked at the guidelines here
docs.indymedia.org/bin/view/Local/UkFea... and looked through some
previous features, I don’t accept that referencing is necessary for a
piece of this type.
   4. Of course it’s contested, it’s a radical new analysis! We’re not
wikipedia are we :)

So, I still propose it goes up as a UK feature as well as LeedsBradford,
and some other people have contacted me to say that they want to use it
too – which they can. I’m proposing this for midnight tomorrow. Chris
and phunkee, I hope you will put some of your responses in as comments
when it goes up.

Also I agree we could produce another excellent feature article working
together. We could either start that now, or base it on a synthesis of
the comments when the above is published.

Cheers cheers cheers x
Star-plus


phunkee
Tuesday
	

On point 2. that you think class analysis has had no relevance since
about 1980 – I have to strongly disagree with you there.

And yes you’re right, there’s no guidelines on referencing, but to put
it bluntly something as contentious as this looks really mickey mouse if
you don’t back it up with posts from the newswire at least.

It’s an interesting idea to compare the crises of capitalism and
climate, but I don’t think it comes across as being that coherent. I had
real problems reading and following what you’re trying to get across
here – and if you’re not into referencing any of these ideas or letting
us know where and how this group has reached these conclusions, then I
really wouldn’t expect anyone else to follow it either.

As it stands, I don’t think this feature in it’s current state will work
as a feature for imcuk.
Star-plus


Mark
Tuesday
	

Thanks phunkee. If you could say exactly which points you find
contentious or where it doesn’t cohere, I’ll do my best to improve them
within the next 24 hours.
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phunkee
12:04AM
	

The whole thing is contentious from paragraph one.

Why don’t you give us some pointers as to where these ideas come from?
Have you published or disseminated this elsewhere? What kind of feedback
did you get?
Star-plus


mike-d
12:12AM
	

I am finding this incoherent and hard to follow, currently it reads like
a variety of loosely related ideas and concepts which you are attempting
to weave into a theory, but I don’t think it is working. I don’t think
it is possible to conflate the climate crisis and the economic crisis in
any way other than the cause of the latter (capitalism) also caused the
former. It might help if you summarise in a few lines or bullet points
what the article is attempting to tell us.
Star-plus


baylott
12:18AM
	

im sure i already put up a comment on this …

I just seconded phunkee and chris. Its contentious for me because its
advocating authoritarianism (i.e. austerity measures). I dont think it
currently qualifies for a feature either as its mostly unsubstantiated
and more like a polemic than analysis of topical or news related stuff.
it would be better suited for shift mag etc.
SpinnerPencil


mike-d
12:24AM
	

To offer something constructive, I think the article would be better if
it took this flow:-

1.) Capitalism is a system which puts profit and wealth distribution to
the powerful before the well-being of people and the planet.

2.) The energy crisis, climate crisis, and economic crisis were all
caused by capitalism.

3.) This has caused people to question capitalism.

4.) The state has developed a strategy to maintain capitalism in the
face of this threat to it. This involves using capitalism to ‘solve’
these crises to head-off any alternatives, and capitalism is efficient
at passing the cost of these crises onto poor people. They are also
using psychological means to minimise dissent.

5.) Some discussion of ways in which people are countering this and
could be countering this.
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