[Imc-uk-network] Calyx proposal - Clarification please
mayler at linuxmail.org
Mon Dec 6 18:43:18 PST 2004
<takes deep breath- tries to stay calm>
When we agreed to http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/PrinciplesOfUnity
I understood that that meant a commitment to consensus http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/DecisionMakingGuide which was not in any way qualified.
My understanding is that consensus decision making is a process that takes time.
My understanding of Indymedia is that it is partly a website and partly a political experiment in consensus decision making, a experiment that is being undertaken by lot's of local collectives.
Here in the UK we have a particulary nebulous situation in that we are 'officially' (in terms of new imc process list) Three collectives; Bristol, Scotland and 'UK' which is in fact eight smaller collectives geographically dispersed about this island.
We currently have no agreed decision making process for these geographically dispersed UK collectives - but we have some pretty big decisions to make...
My feeling is that what is really important in all this, is the consensus decision making process within local collectives; and that the website, the films, the film screenings, the radio shows all flow from that.
The media we make, and our organisations are powerful because we 'live' the new world we want to create, we do that through our firm and principled commitment to consensus decision making.
So I take the point that it would be _nice_ to have this all done and dusted by Weds 15th and will certainly try to make a contribution to the debate before then - but IMHO if it takes longer then it takes longer...
If people on the tech side of the project would like to be able to bypass this process (I can see a case for this in particular circumstances) then they need to draft a proposal and get IMC UK to agree to grant them those powers.
IMC UK could then decide by consensus http://seedsforchange.org.uk/linux/consflow whether to grant those powers.
Until that happens tech people are stuck with waiting for consensus, just like the rest of us.
Some specific points of clarification about the Calyx proposal please
1)a. This is just the Publishing server right?
b. So if the feds took this away, then the site could accept no new posts? but would continue to display the
content that was on it at the point the publishing server was taken away?
2) Is this free?
3) If not what are the costs?
4) how long is the contract for?
5) how do those costs compare with (at least 3) other providers?
6) Is the offer from the Dutch group 'Friends of indymedia' to sign the contract conditional on using Calyx? or dependent on using a Dutch host?
My responses to some points raised:
imho, we need to make that decision now, we need to agree to
> seriously explore further a collaboration with Calyx (OR NOT), since
> Calyx are coming a *long* way, as you can see in the email below, to
> accomodate our needs. We cannot just let them hang, - we have to
> indicate to them where we stand, that is only the responsible thing to
> do (and good practice!).
It may be good practice in terms of business, but we are not a business - we are a group of collectives with a firm commitment to consensus decision making.
If as has been suggested, Calyx have a good understanding of indymedia then they will understand this.
> ---- personally, i think that i'd like to see any other company let
> anyone represent them who are so upfront about indy suppport and
> generally collaborative, and think that we should just stick a bloody
> box down there with them, --and get on with it.
Calyx do IMHO look like a good option whilst we develop properly distributed systems, IMHO the best protection against censorship and other legal attacks is massive redundancy and decentralization.
a la Eternity http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/eternity/eternity.html
<looks at time>
1 of Bristol.indymedia.org
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