[Imc-uk-process] IMC UK anti-fascist credentials at stake
mrdemeanour at jackpot.uk.net
Mon Apr 4 09:04:20 PDT 2005
Tony Gosling wrote (in two different posts - I've been away for a couple
> Secondly, Daniele Ganser deserves every penny he gets from this
> brilliant book as do the plucky publishers. There is no 'conspiracy
> nut' (wake up: the arms business IS RUN on secrecy/conspiracy) stuff
> here it's all corroberated in the book.
Amazing - we are supposed to be surprised that the arms business and
matters military are subject to government secrecy? All over Western
Europe and North America? Wow. I'm shocked - *shocked*!.
I didn't claim to have read the book. I read the synopsis. It bears no
relationship to the write-up in the article. Perhaps the synopsis is
dodgy; but my impression was that Tony's Indymedia article was "less
reliable" than the detailed synopsis on the website of the author's
own employer. Check for yourselves.
> If you prefer the review given on the university web site by all
> means add it as a comment but to hide my review is to hide the links
> between NATO and the far right the same censorship Indymedia was set
> up to fight. Nazi.
I've never hidden any Indymedia newswire post. I've never censored
anything in my life. I am of the "I may disagree with you but ..."
persuasion. I am totally unlike a nazi, and I object vigorously to this
public defamation. I WOULD LIKE IT WITHDRAWN.
> Thirdly, the legal warning is a Schnews-likle piss take and, unlike
> you coward Demeanor, I have no problem with any of me or my work
> being published.
And in exactly which respect am I a coward? I do not hide behind my nym.
I'm one of the moderators of this mailing list, I send email from my own
domain, and the domain details are complete and accurate. I am really
very easy to identify and find. I use this nym on Usenet and in my email
address (well, the most public one, anyway). I have nothing to hide.
DejaGoo has known me for 20 years. I've used perhaps three nyms; but
it's not hard to connect the dots.
> My experience in this matter and with a long history on IMC of
> censorship of my material tells me something is deeply deeply wrong
> at UK IMC - the only way I see the honest and good people still
> involved can salvage things is by making two things happen.
So Tony should post somewhere else, if he doesn't like the editorial
style. Indymedia isn't a link-farm for conspiracy-theorists' websites
(or anyone else's).
> 1. When a post is hidden it is hidden for a given reason (clause in
> the guidelines)
> and b. by an accountable individual who may subsequently answer for
> their actions
... and it was.
> 2. There is an appeal process on that decision with an agreed team of
> three public indymedia editors who can arbitrate between the hider
> and the author.
There *is*? Then perhaps the editorial process is more complex than the
published guidelines would suggest. The guidelines for IMC-UK make no
mention of appeal tribunals, or of any kind of "appeal process"
whatsoever. This list is specifically intended for the discussion of
editorial decisions, among other things. Perhaps the pills have stopped
> Dear Eileen,
A person-to-person slanging match is off-topic on any kind of mailing
list that I've ever subscribed to; a post to the UK-process list should
not begin "Dear X". If you want to write to X, write to X.
> I'm sure Mr Demeanour is a lovely chap... and a real person.
That is patronising rot; Tony obviously knows practically nothing about
me. I've never (to my knowledge) been referred to as "a lovely chap" by
anyone who knows me:-)
> But can you then explain or excuse his hiding posts which expose hard
> evidence of links between the far right and NATO?
I have never hidden anything. As it happens, the only post I've ever had
hidden myself was a comment to some rant about someone *else's* post,
which had been hidden; my (hidden) comment was *in defence* of his right
to post, and the hiding of my comment was a matter of collateral damage
(i.e. the context of my comment had been hidden).
> Then lying/ditching editorial guidelines to cover his tracks? He's
> clearly done that saying there was a commercial link to amazon in the
> article which there wasn't.
It is correct that there was no link to Amazon, as such; and I apologise
for that inaccuracy. But it's a little bit sophistical - Tony noted in
his article that the book is available from Amazon, and at what price. I
call that a commercial plug. There's no ban on links, but commercial
plugging is forbidden.
> As I say, this is an extremely serious problem those of UK IMC have
> to deal with if they care a jot for their anti-fascist credentials.
I don't care a jot for my "credentials", in fact I don't really have
any. I don't have anything to prove. I'm not even the Secretary of the
Anywhere Branch of Anything.
> And I have tried to make some constructive suggestions.
Tony has been barking up the wrong tree. I didn't hide his article,
someone else did. All I did was to comment on his complaint, which he
posted to this list. My comment was on-topic and (I think) moderate.
I am no nazi, and I resent the slur. I am looking forward to seeing
Tony's public apology. He claims to be A Journalist, so it's reasonable
to expect him to substantiate his allegations quickly, or else recant.
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