[Imc-uk-process] [Fwd: [Imc-uk-features] 9PM IRC IRC MEETING DEFAMATION ISSUE]
Hamish Downer
mishd at fastmail.fm
Mon Feb 7 09:11:24 PST 2005
-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Bal <balmuswell at freeuk.com>
To: imc-uk-tech at lists.indymedia.org, IMC Legal
<imc-uk-legal at lists.indymedia.org>, imc-uk-features at lists.indymedia.org
Subject: [Imc-uk-features] 9PM IRC IRC MEETING DEFAMATION ISSUE
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:49:20 +0000
________________________________________________________________________
Dear All
There is a meeting on IRC at 9PM about the defamation issue.
This is a draft proposal.
Tomorrow we will get some preliminary advice from the NUJ on
issues surrounding the defamation problem. It is vital that
there is some co-ordination between tech, features and legal to
not only lodge our concerns but also have a working strategy
between all three. Below is a very good letter devised by Stacy
but am not sure if it has been sent. I have collected so
everyone please comment, advise or edit. I have put together a
kind of dossier for the lawyer and would like you all to look at
the info below and comment, edit or change. When I speak with
the NUJ tomorrow I would like to send the following, I have
taken out names but can but them back in too if people like.
Are we all still meeting tonight?
The intro below is rewritten by me on what we want but the rest
is a combination of everyone's emails - I will not do this
without the consent of IMC UK - please comment, add, change as
needed
I would like to rewrite the introduction to
We urgently seek your advice on the following:
IMC UK is a unique open news publishing internet site are used
directly by authors of news or opinion (made up of any person or
persons in the public subject to political groups etc) postings
to submit information on largely public interest and social
justice issues. IMC UK was keen to ensure that all postings were
a true reflection, the system allows for a response to be made
instantaneously to a posting, anyone disagreeing or posting
their own comments to posting can respond to the author
instanteously. The aim of this is to allow the authors to
interact with the public and each other and create a truly
people's press. This allows As IMC UK wanted to host a
democratic forum for freedom of expression, a response can be
made by someone agreeing or disagreeing with an author's posting
or commenting on a similar issue almost instantaneously. The
news website is rolling 24 hours a day. We have worked with this
system for several years and it has proved a success with IMC
even being granted an award at one point.
We allow for postings not to be written in journalistic speak as
not every author can discuss their content with a lawyer so we
use the posting system and editorial guidelines subject to the
proviso of hiding to ensure the smoothe working of the website.
We are committed to the original news posting and the integrity
of the author so there is little interference with the system of
sharing and posting news.
A recent defamation case is an interesting point in hand, the
bulk of the original posting is accurate except one part where
it says a weapons company is responsible for killing children. A
letter was received by the company, who must realise that if
they have taken the time to read the article that we also have a
system of instant response allowing someone challenging an
author to directly respond. It would appear that the company are
reluctant to take on the issue with the author and have
threatened IMC UK with a defamation case instead. This company
may not directly be killing children but its weapons most
certainly are. We believe that as 2 million people marched
against war this piece is important to protect the right to
raise public interest issues in the interests of democracy.
We hope you will consider the following information to advise
IMC UK on its
right to freedom of expression
right to information which seeks to educate and inform people
right to allow public interest opinion pieces
right to protect the integrity of an open publishing site
and advise us based on the information below as to what action
to take now that IMCUK is being threatened by this company.
We attach a
summary
copy of the letter
copy of the proposed draft letter
url of postings
info about lawyer
imcuk thoughts about posting
company background
IMC letter
SUMMARY
On 31 January a takedown notice was received via
snail-mail by
WebArchitects, threatening legal action if some posts
about EDO MBM
Technology Limited [EDO] are not taken down by 2nd
February (that
deadline has passed). Note that the only relationship
between
WebArchitects and Indymedia is that WebArchitects is
listed in the IMC
UK WHOIS record as the "registrant's agent", i.e.
WebArchitects have
absolutely no responsibility for the domain. The letter
was from a firm
of lawyers acting for EDO, called REYNOLDS PORTER
CHAMBERLAIN.
On 3rd February, a further takedown notice was received
via email by
[someone], and was forwarded to the imc-uk-legal list.
This second
notice was similar to the first, but specified a new
deadline of 7th
February for the removal of the content, and further
demanded that
Indymedia UK make a formal, written, signed undertaking.
this email demands that "[imc-uk] remove[s] all
material from your website which
is defamatory of our client and that, within 14
days of the date of this letter,
(by 18th February 2005), you return to us the
enclosed draft Undertaking, typed
on your letterhead."
|Indymedia UK |Direct Tel: 020
7306 3416 |
| | |
|imcuk at indymedia.org.uk |Email:
stephen.mayer at rpc.co.uk |
| | |
|Pages |
|Fax No |
|Our Ref: SDM/MBM2.3 |3rd February
2005 |
| | |
|Dear Sirs, |
| |
|EDO MBM TECHNOLOGY LIMITED |
We act for EDO MBM Technology Limited.
Our client has become aware of false and defamatory
information about our
client that has been posted on your website at
www.indymedia.org.uk.
We refer in particular to the statements that our client
"war-mongers", is
"complicit in the deaths of innocent people" and makes
"things to kill
children" and to the comments posted on your website
which are falsely
ascribed to Paul Hills and David Jones of EDO MBM
Technology Limited.
Furthermore, you publish the names and private addresses
of MBM EDO
Technology Limited employees and comments which actively
encourage readers
to target these individuals, who are described as a
"Mass Murderer at
large" and "Masochistic".
These statements are false and highly damaging to our
client's reputation
and the reputation of it's employees. Our client
manufactures weapons
interfacing systems and deals only with reputable
customers. Our client
takes this matter very seriously and is minded to
commence proceedings
against you for libel, seeking an injunction, damages
and costs.
Our client is, however, prepared to try and settle this
matter without
recourse to the courts on the condition that on or
before Monday 7th
February 2005 you remove all material from your website
which is defamatory
of our client and that, within 14 days of the date of
this letter, (by 18th
February 2005), you return to us the enclosed draft
Undertaking, typed on
your letterhead.
If you do not comply with this request within the time
specified our client
reserves its right to commence court proceedings against
you without
further notice, claiming an injunction and damages and
all other reliefs to
which it is entitled. Provided that you comply with our
client's
requirements, our client will refrain from commencing
proceedings against
you for libel in respect of your unlawful activities to
date, although, of
course, our client reserves all its rights in the event
of any breach by
you of the undertaking.
We look forward to hearing from you as a matter of
urgency.
Yours faithfully,
REYNOLDS PORTER CHAMBERLAIN
DRAFT UNDERTAKING TO BE TYPED
ON THE LETTERHEAD OF INDYMEDIA UK
EDO MBM Technology Limited
C/o Reynolds Porter Chamberlain
Chichester House
278-282 High Holborn
London
WC1V 7HA
Dear Sirs
In consideration of you not commencing proceedings
against us for libel for
defaming EDO MBM Technology Limited in the manner set
out in the letter
from Reynolds Porter Chamberlain dated 3rd February 2005
we, Indymedia UK,
hereby undertake that we will not in the future (whether
acting by
ourselves, our employees or agents or otherwise
howsoever) publish
defamatory statements relating to the activities of EDO
MBM Technology
Limited, including, without limitation, those statements
complained of in
Reynolds Porter Chamberlain's letter of 3rd February
2005 or words to a
similar effect.
Yours faithfully,
...........
...........
Print name
............
Date
The URL for the story on UK indy?
www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2005/01/304430.html
www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2005/01/303499.html
www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2005/01/304182.html
www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2005/01/304521.html
the company EDO MBM Technology Limited [EDO] wants the
posts removed makes arms
this is their lawyer:
http://www.rpc.co.uk/main/default.asp?p=15&c=230
"Stephen is co-Chairman of the Intellectual Property
Practice Group of
the TerraLex legal network, an Associate of the
Chartered Institute of
Patent Agents and Chairman of RPC's International
Committee. He also the
edits the TerraLex intellectual property newsletter
which is circulated
to lawyers across the world."
The postings and IMC thoughts on this issue
IMC UK THOUGHTS ABOUT POSTINGS
We refer in particular to the statements that
our client
"war-mongers"
Fair comment, in context; the company manufactures
equipment that has no
other purpose than making war.
, is "complicit in the deaths of innocent
people"
Fair comment, if you ask me. Manufacturing and selling
weapons that are
subsequently used to kill people amounts to complicity
in their death.
But it's hidden - no link.
and makes "things to kill children"
It says "When you end a long day making (or supporting
those who do)
things to kill children 1000s of miles away then get
confronted by some
people who point this simple fact out to you it grinds
them down."
That's not quite the same as what the SLAPP is alleging.
But I'm not sure we'd want to defend that comment, as
the context
implies that the EDO staff deliberately make things that
they intend for
killing children. I think it should be edited. It's
here:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2005/01/303499.html
and to the comments posted on your website which
are falsely ascribed
to Paul Hills and David Jones of EDO MBM
Technology Limited.
Those sign-offs are obviously humorous, as no-one could
mistake those
comments for the opinions of EDO directors. But I think
the comments
should be edited to remove the false attributions, in
view of the fact
that a libel suit is being contemplated. They're here
(hidden):
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2005/01/304430.html
and here:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2005/01/304182.html
and here:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2005/01/304521.html
Furthermore, you publish the names and private
addresses of MBM EDO Technology Limited
employees and comments which actively encourage
readers to target these individuals,
There's no sign of any such "active encouragement" that
I can find. And
I'm not aware that it would be actionable if there was.
The names and
addresses are in the public domain.
I'm personally against the kind of action that involves
harrassing
people at home, but I believe that it's legal until a
court says it
isn't. Is that correct?
who are described as a "Mass Murderer at large"
"Residents of the quiet Eastbourne housing estate were
given leaflets
proclaiming that there was a 'MASS MURDERER AT LARGE'" -
i.e. that's a
factual report. The report doesn't say who is being
referred to, but
that's not a defense, as the context makes it clear. And
the fact that
the report is second-hand isn't a defense either, since
repeating (or
reporting) a libellous allegation is libellous. Calling
an arms
manufacturer a "mass murderer" is factually inaccurate
and damaging; I
think it should be edited (not hidden, because if the
defamatory
material is still present on the site, we'd still be
exposed). It's here:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2005/01/304521.html
and "Masochistic".
I guess that comment should be edited. It's potentially
libellous, and I
don't see how it could be described as "fair comment".
It's here:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/london/2005/01/304182.html
Our client is, however, prepared to try and
settle this matter
without recourse to the courts on the condition
that on or before
Monday 7th February 2005 you remove all material
from your website
which is defamatory of our client
A fair demand, I think.
and that, within 14 days of the date of this
letter, (by 18th February 2005), you return to
us the enclosed draft Undertaking,
typed on your letterhead.
Background to EDO MBM
http://www.mbmtech.co.uk/
EDO MBM Technology is a proven designer, developer and
manufacturer of weapon interfacing (carriage &
release) ... Its principle products and services
include:
* weapon interfacing design services
* bomb racks / ERUs
* weapon suspension and ancillary systems
* pylon ancillaries
* practice bomb carriers
* precision motors and encoders
* product support services
They are working on parts for the /precision/ guided new
Paveway bomb...
http://www.flightdailynews.com/singapore2004/02_26/defence/edo.shtm
"Raytheon Systems, prime contractor on the Royal Air
Force’s new Paveway IV precision-guided bomb, has
awarded a £6.5 million contract to supply the
weapon-to-pylon interface to Brighton, UK-based Edo MBM
Technology.
And you will be pleased to know they already make
components [http://www.mbmtech.co.uk/wsas.html] for the
excellent Enhanced Paveway and Paveway III which works
so well...
http://www.providence.edu/mba/goodrich/war/surgical/
"In other words, 100 non-fatigued, un-drugged, test
pilots flying in perfect weather with miles of
visibility and no distractions perfectly deliver their
Paveway [9] III laser-guided bombs (CEP of 8 meters).
Fifty percent of those Paveway IIIs will fall within 8
meters of the target. The other half will strike more
than 8 meters from the target. Note that CEP is a median
not a mean average measurement. Thus, there is no outer
bound as in a normal distribution. [10]
[9] Vernon Loeb, "Bursts of Brilliance: How a string of
discoveries by unheralded engineers and airmen helped
bring America to the pinnacle of modern military
power.", Washington Post, 15 December 2002, p. W06.
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36897-2002Dec10.html). Accessed 2002-12-15.
"By the end of the war in 1975, the United States had
dropped more than 28,000 Paveways in Southeast Asia. The
laser-guided weapons represented less than 1 percent of
the 3.3 million bombs dropped during the war. But they
had proved themselves on the battlefield with stunning
accuracy."
[10] The circular error probable is associated with the
circular normal distribution with an aiming error
standard deviation equal to 0.849 CEP and is a
meaningful measure of accuracy if the impact pattern is
reasonably circular. As the pattern becomes more
elliptical, Deflection Error Probable (DEP) and Range
Error Probable (REP) become more accurate descriptions
of the pattern (DOD, IADB). AIR FORCE PAMPHLET 14- 210
Intelligence 1 FEBRUARY 1998, p. 114.
They have been doing some sterling work on the bargain
price Eurofighter project....
http://defence-data.com/eft/eftpage44.htm
EDO to provide Eurofighter components
EDO MBM Technology Ltd, a unit of EDO Corporation has
been awarded an initial contract worth ＿ million ($2.2
million), with options of ＿illion ($5.5 million), for
the supply of scanning motors and drive electronics on
the Eurofighter Typhoon infra-red search and track
system, known as PIRATE (Passive Infra-Red Airborne
Track Equipment.)
And sponsored this excellent conference...
http://static.highbeam.com/m/m2presswire/february192004/airbornestrike26thand27thapril2004thehattonlondons/
Airborne Strike -- 26th and 27th April 2004 The Hatton,
London; Sponsored by: EDO-MBM Technology.
Expand your understanding of air power`s central
contribution to the joint battlespace by attending SMi`s
`Airborne Strike` Conference. Not only can modern air
power arrive quickly where needed, it has become far
more lethal in conventional operations.
--
http://leedsbradford.indymedia.org.uk/ GPG Key:
0xC3900BA5
xmmp://ekes@jabber.org.uk m$
messenger:ekes at hotmail.co.uk
_______________________________________________
THE IMC RESPONSE
Dear Mr. Kaplan,
Thank you for your letter expressing your concern
regarding a post about
Dafka on Santa Cruz Indymedia.
As an open-publishing newswire, Santa Cruz Indymedia
tries to give voice
to as many points of view as possible. We employ no
reporters, and
often do not even know the identities of the authors of
posts. As such,
the administrators of the site do not take
responsibility for the content
of individual posts.
While there may be times when material must be hidden
due to legal or
house-keeping necessity, we try to keep this to a
minimum in order to
allow free and open exchange of information and debate.
Additionally,
each IMC is locally managed by volunteer collectives.
We have no
jurisdiction over other IMC collectives, therefore your
requests would
need to be negotiatied with each collective
individually.
_______________________________________________
imc-uk-legal mailing list
imc-uk-legal at lists.indymedia.org
http://lists.indymedia.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/imc-uk-legal
--
Indymedia United Kollektives editorial: features and wire moderation
http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-uk-features
More information about the Imc-uk-process
mailing list