[Imc-wales] Imc-Wales south gathering
Genny
vg at genny.force9.co.uk
Wed Jun 27 18:12:36 UTC 2007
Hi
Thanks for letting us know that you won't be able to get to the meeting,
Ana. I agree that if it's just going to be an afternoon meeting then it
is in any case hardly worth the journey for you.
I agree wholeheartedly with you that joining some of the lists -
features, network, process etc. and spending a bit of time in irc - are
the best ways for new people to find out how indymedia functions, along
with reading the documentation all over the website, rather than a
single training session - although I think face-to-face training is
important too.
Re. the language thing, maybe you haven't understood fully the Welsh
language proposal. It's certainly not that every last post and feature
has to be translated into Welsh or vice versa - just that there would be
a Welsh interface for Welsh speakers to use when they view the web page
and publish their news. Much of the content is likely to be in English
only, but some could also be in Welsh only. Other items might be posted
bilingually.
That requires a finite number of static pages to be translated, along
with having a few people in the collective who can moderate Welsh posts
- ie check they meet the guidelines.
My gut feeling about paying translators is the same as yours - I think
this is something we should try and find people to do as part of the
collective - but it's not that easy. Even when fully bilingual, Welsh
speakers don't necessarily have translation skills, especially when it
comes to technical terms. Also, indymedia does sometimes pay for
services it can't get for free. That sounds like I'm arguing for paying
someone to do the translation - I'm not, and I certainly wouldn't agree
that any active member of indymedia should receive money for translation
or anything else. Just trying to look at the realities of the situation
- if we have to, maybe we will need to use a 'professional' translation
service.
If we were going to just have an English page for now, as Kelvin
suggests, then this could more or less go up straight away, once the
guidelines and mission statement etc. have been agreed and a few people
have learned how to do admin. But I'm really not sure this is the right
thing to do.
Since the last meeting, in Wrexham, which was pretty well attended and
where quite a few people committed to work on various things, progress
has been slow, not just because of the language issue, but because
several people's situations have changed too.
I don't think it's a good idea to launch a page for Wales unless and
until we have a core of committed and active collective members. I do
understand the argument that this might come about once the page is
launched and people become enthused and inspired by it, but I'm
personally not prepared to take the risk of this not happening. Once
something is there, it's too easy for people to see it as a 'service'
provided by others for their benefit, rather than the collective,
participative project that indymedia should and can be.
OK, that's enough rant from me. Time to make some food, I think.
Cheers
Genny
ana wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Something has come up on this weekend and I can not make it; however I'm
> not sure I would attend even if I could, in these conditions, as in,
> would it be worth to travel all the way from London only for an
> afternoon-long meeting of which my input would be relegated to just
> training those who need it?
>
> Please do not take this as bad feelings, I know how difficult it is to
> set up something like an indymedia website ... I'm only talking about
> practicalities, I still support fully the idea of an indymedia page for
> welsh people by welsh people and I will do as much as I can to help you
> (I just cant help this weekend)
>
> I think that there was already some one from indymedia uk giving you
> some training? If so, I would imagine that those who already received
> the training could pass on that knowledge to the rest? If not, what
> would the training consist of? uploading? administrating?
>
> I would also be interested in knowing what you would expect (in general,
> not just training) the input of an indymedia uk person would consist of,
> in your meeting. I mean, if the meeting lasts for a whole weekend, as
> in, two sessions on a Saturday and another one on a Sunday (morning),
> then it would be ok to just turn up and give you an insight of what can
> be expected from the indymedia network etc etc, but if the meeting is
> going to be just one afternoon, then we would need a lot more focus of
> what it is going to talk about, and if there is not enough time to talk
> about all issues (and it sounds like the welsh language could take quite
> a long time to talk about) then I would not see much point for some one
> from the uk to travel a big distance if there is not going to be much
> time for this person to have a significant input apart from a training
> that some one from wales can do as well.
>
> If you have indeed received some training in how to contribute in terms
> of articles, how to prepare a feature etc (there are pages showing that
> too) then the next step - really - would probably not be go and get an
> admin password, but to subscribe to the imc-uk-features list (at the
> very very least) and participate in the creation of new features, or
> improvement of those in process - and you do not need a password for
> that; the work is done on the list and/or wiki and/or irc and the only
> passwords you need to participate in those fora are actually created by
> yourselves.
>
> So, after this rant, what I would say is, if you could have the meeting
> on another [full] weekend then I would try and make some space for it,
> but this weekend that I had already signed up for I can't (and I'm
> sorry) but again, I don't think I would travel just for a one-afternoon
> meeting. I guess you would need to decide what input you would need in
> such a meeting from a uk person. (and i have to add that if you need a
> techie person to explain the inners of the website then I may not be the
> best person for that).
>
> And please do subscribe to the features list and try and understand
> etc., you can actually subscribe to other lists like process, network
> ... have a look at the contacts page (link at the top of the uk site).
>
> [the following part is just my opinion; you can ignore if you want since
> it is the opinion of a non-wales person]
>
> from my experience, there is not much point in talking about doing
> something if the people talking about it can not actually do it. I hope
> not to hurt anyone's feelings, it is not my intention, but really if
> none of you have the knowledge and the time to translate at least all
> the features to welsh (and it is a _lot_ of time, word of translator)
> then it is only going to be frustrating to attempt to do a bilingual
> indymedia - features will remain untranslated, people will feel bitter
> about it...
>
> And as for the paying some one to do indymedia work, I feel strongly
> that I would not put my free time and my money (to do some travelling,
> to wales, to share my knowledge and help, for instance) while some one
> is being paid to do it - many of us have been sacrifying time, and some
> have actually left jobs in order to do this for free, living on savings,
> benefits, who knows - i would not feel comfortable working with some one
> who is being paid for doing indymedia work.
>
> in any case it is your collective decision and it has to be noted that
> there may be some one at the moment in some indymedia in the states
> receiving money for the work they do; there have been bitter feelings
> about that as well. As I say, ultimately is your own collective
> decision. I guess that will be some thing that will take a long time to
> discuss in your next meeting - and maybe it is not indispensable to have
> some one from indy uk present in those discussions? apart from sharing
> our experience, which i'm already doing here ...
>
> sorry for this long email, and thanks if you have read all the way here....
>
> ana
>
> Gwent Anarchists wrote:
>> Well the meeting can happen, I'm just worried it'll
>> just be Genny and a few people from cardiff who are a
>> little interested, does it need to be a weekend long
>> event if this is the case? So far the only people
>> who've said they are coming is genny, ana from London,
>> Hywel, and possibly kelvin, the poster in the PAD has
>> had a few looks but I am a little worried...
>> --- Genny <vg at genny.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I'm planning to come along if the meeting's
>>> happening, but I need to
>>> know v. soon to get a cheapish train ticket...
>>> unless there are enough
>>> people coming from this end of Wales to make
>>> car-share viable. I'll
>>> need crash space, probably Fri and Sat nights - last
>>> time I looked the
>>> cheapest ticket was the one which got me to Cardiff
>>> midnight on
>>> Friday/Sat. Is it feasible to arrive at the PAD that
>>> sort of time? Will
>>> I be able to find my way in the dark? I could bring
>>> my bike on the
>>> train possibly to get there from the station...
>>>
>>> If there's a computer or two and an internet
>>> connection, then I could do
>>> basic training on how to write and submit articles -
>>> been working on a
>>> leaflet for this - maybe on Sat after the meeting or
>>> on Sun morning.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Genny
>>>
>>> Kelvin Mason wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would come to this meeting but I'm not sure what
>>>>
>>> I can contribute at this
>>>
>>>> stage or what's going to the happen at the
>>>>
>>> meeting. I can't help with the
>>>
>>>> need for a Welsh speaking moderator and I worry
>>>>
>>> we're getting in a knot
>>>
>>>> about this? Maybe we can get up and running and
>>>>
>>> use our page to find Welsh
>>>
>>>> speakers who wan to be involved? We do this with
>>>>
>>> the Cambrian Snooze. If
>>>
>>>> there's training on how to submit articles etc,
>>>>
>>> I'd come down to Cardiff.
>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Kelvin
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: imc-wales-bounces at lists.indymedia.org
>>>> [mailto:imc-wales-bounces at lists.indymedia.org] On
>>>>
>>> Behalf Of Gwent Anarchists
>>>
>>>> Sent: 26 June 2007 10:55
>>>> To: imc-wales
>>>> Subject: Re: [Imc-wales] Imc-Wales south gathering
>>>>
>>>> Anyone off this list planning to come to this???
>>>>
>>>> Need to know who needs somewhere to stay, numbers
>>>>
>>> for
>>>
>>>> food etc? If people arn't interested should we
>>>>
>>> delay
>>>
>>>> the event to a time when people are?
>>>>
>>>> --- Gwent Anarchists <gwentanarchists at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 7th & 8th July 2007 at the PAD social centre 118
>>>>> Clifton Street, Cardiff.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone who wants to help set up a Wales page
>>>>>
>>> within
>>>
>>>>> indymedia united kollectives welcome to attend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please join the imc-wales list at:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-wales
>>
>>>>> and post confirmation details.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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