[New-imc] Re: imc vienna

[haengematte at gmx.at]

hi ana and all of you!

happy to hear that you are healthy again. i will try to answer your
questions, please keep reading:


> Hi all and nowak,
> 
> I'm really sorry for taking so much longer than expected. I was ill 
> after coming from spain, then had to catch up with work on hold because 
> of spain...
> 
> I have now read all [english] texts that you have made available. I have 
> a few questions but they may be minor, so let me ask the list whether we 
> can now start setting up deadlines or if my minor questions need to be 
> asked first...
> 
> First of all, to say that i find no major issue in their documents, they 
> show that at the very least they are taking this application very 
> seriously, and have certainly gone through the Principles of Unity, 
> Membership Criteria, mission statement, editorial policy... thoroughly 
> and discussed them in their meetings. What is not clear is whether what 
> there is on the pages has been decided or if they are still discussing 
> it more! It would be good if some one else had a look at the pages. You 
> can find all the links in nowak's text.

on our meeting on 26 august we finally decided on our editorial policy and
on our mission statement. on our meeting on 4 october we decided on our
answers to the membership criteria and on our statement to the principles of
unity.
 
> Maybe to highlight, for comment, on this page,
> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaEditorialPolicy
> 
> they are going to keep the 'garbage' (see '2.4 garbage articles') only 
> available on request, by email.
> 
> the first points on this page
> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcVienna
> are only in german but i trust they are not saying anything outrageous ;-)
> 
> I have some other comments, please keep reading:
> 
> 
> haengematte at gmx.at wrote:
> 
> >hi ana,
> >
> >ok, let us follow the process step by step:
> >(according to http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/NewImcHowTo)
> >
> >1. pre-organising:
> >the three questions at this point are in fact included in the
> new-imc-form,
> >which we sent to the list in early july. you find our answers here:
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaNewImcFormular
> >
> >2. look at the documents:
> >we have done this and you find on our twiki-page our statement to the
> >principles of unity and our answers to the membership criteria:
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaProcess
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaMembershipCriteria
> >
> >3. fill out the form:
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaNewImcFormular
> >(just to mention it: as the contact person i never received a password
> "to
> >update the contact database")
> >
> >4. open a mailing list:
> >we have an open mailing list:
> >http://lists.t0.or.at/wwsympa.fcgi/info/vienna.indymedia
> >
> >1. organise:
> >we hold monthly open meetings, inform alternative groups and activists by
> >email and leaflets, post our protocols in a left discussion forum and
> >discuss with the users there, visit meetings of other groups to discuss
> >cooperation ....
> >
> >2. mission statement and editorial policy and contact to indy techs:
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaMissionStatement
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaEditorialPolicy
> >we contacted an indy server with MIR in brasilia and our tech spokeswoman
> >joined tech-lists (global, germany)
> >
> >3. membership criteria:
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaMembershipCriteria
> >
> >-------------------------------------
> >
> >about your other questions:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Regarding this:
> >>
> >>http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaMembershipCriteria
> >>
> >>b. Have a committed membership substantial enough to sustain a 
> >>functional IMC,
> >>Our activists are working in various community groups and we have strong
> >>links to those groups. During the registration process we attended 
> >>several meetings of community groups, where we expained our project and 
> >>discussed cooperation.
> >>What was the outcome of these meetings and cooperation discussed? How 
> >>many people are regularly in most meetings and generally carrying out 
> >>the work?
> >>    
> >>
> > 
> >some of these groups offered financial support for the starting phase. 
> >
> 
> financial support should be sure to be with no strings attached... have 
> they put any conditions for this support?

there are no conditions and we would not accept any. in fact two groups
offered 100 euros each for making photocopies.
 
> >so we
> >are able to photocopy leaflets or print t-shirts. the groups are waiting
> for
> >our start and want to contribute with texts to vienna.indymedia. some
> people
> >offered support in the technical field, if necessary. 
> >in our monthly meetings between 12 and 15 people are coming.  more or
> less
> >all of our activists are contributing (off course). it depends on how
> busy
> >one person is.
> >
> >  
> >
> >>e. Establish and publish an editorial policy which is developed and 
> >>functions through democratic process, and with full transparency,
> >>We have already adopted our Editorial Policy after several months of 
> >>discussions through our open mailing list and during our regular 
> >>meetings (you find it on our Twiki-page).
> >>
> >>How do you plan to decide what to put on the middle column and what to 
> >>hide, if anything. Who is going to have the password to edit middle 
> >>column and what will be the criteria to have the password.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >decisions about the middle column will be through an open mailing list.
> all
> >interested activists can contibute. our editorial policy states:
> >"The final decision about central column texts are made through our
> >mailinglist. All interested users can take part in the decision-making
> >process and are able to make new proposals for central column texts. In
> case
> >that such a text fullfills all requirements for Newswire articles and
> after
> >passing a 12-hour veto deadline, it will be placed into the central
> column.
> >Furthermore our mailinglist offers the possibility to get in contact with
> >other users and to cooperate in preparing new Features. Therefore we use
> a
> >special tool called Wiki to enable activists to write texts together."
> >all activists who regulary attend the open meetings will be able to get
> the
> >password and therefore will be able to edit the middle column. decisions
> >about hiding texts will be by the moderators (with consensus). this
> >decisions can be questioned and discussed through the open mailinglist
> and
> >on the monthly open meetings.
> > 
> >  
> >
> >>what do you know about the software available? if you don't, would you 
> >>formulate how you plan to structure the site, so we can offer you one or
> >>other? who would be the technical people to communicate with?
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >to be honest, i am personaly not an expert in technics. but our group
> >decided to use MIR (1.1.). we have a working group that is engaged in
> this.
> >they are currently working through the informations on mir.indymedia.org.
> >and we have the offer from several computer experts here in vienna to
> help
> >us to set up the page and to help us getting all the knowledge to handle
> the
> >system later.
> >feel free to contact our technical spokeswoman: regina.regenbogen at gmx.at
> >the structure of the site will be similar to the german site that is also
> >using MIR 1.1.
> > 
> >  
> >
> >>Subscribe our public email list:
> >> > > http://lists.t0.or.at/wwsympa.fcgi/info/vienna.indymedia
> >>*Next meeting: Wednesday, July 28, 19.30 at Ernst-Kirchweger-Haus, 
> >>Wielandgasse 2-4, 1100 Vienna, Austria.*
> >>-- RudiRatte - 30 Jun 2004
> >>i think you should update this, and/or announced in your public list 
> >>when each next meeting is going to be.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >i really have not found this wrong announcement on our twiki-page.
> >principally our meetings are announced on the top of our twiki-page
> >(currently: imc-vienna-meeting-5, wednesday 3rd of november)
> >furthermore we announce our meetings via email to groups, our mailinglist
> >and through posting in discussion forums and newsletters.
> >  
> >
> i think i put the link to the page where i found this on another email 
> but it is not that important; besides vienna has now a sarai-based email 
> list, http://lists.indymedia.org/mailman/listinfo/imc-vienna
> 
> > 
> >  
> >
> >>I sent some questions in a previous emails, some of them have been 
> >>answered very well – thanks for these – but some others have not been 
> >>addressed. Could you please explain a bit about the split that occurred 
> >>in austria, if any, and what relationship there is with imc austria if 
> >>any, why you see the need to create imc vienna completely outside imc 
> >>austria.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >well, i am not sure what you mean with that. i have already informed you
> >that there was no split and that we have good relations with
> >austria.indymedia.
> >In fact our concept is a little bit different, we follow the "german
> model"
> >(or imc.germany). this means we prefer another structure of the site
> >compared with austria.indymedia. we think that this is more capable to
> >promote media participation. Maybe you have heard about that: in germany
> (as
> >well as in austria and switzerland) the left activists are deeply divided
> >and fighting each other. one faction accuse the other of being
> antisemitic
> >and the other faction speak about racism. indymedia pages in
> german-speaking
> >countries became the main battleground for this war. and this conflict
> was
> >also responsible for the problems in switzerland some time ago (lawsuit,
> >police action). we think that this conflict prevents people to take part
> in
> >indymedia and we think that the german model is better to adress this
> mess.
> >  
> >
> 
> I wonder what you refer to by 'the german model'. I may guess, but i 
> would prefer you to explain if you don't mind...

no problem. with "german model" we mean the structure of the site as well as
the handling of hidden postings. similar to germany.indymedia we will not
have open garbage archives, but we will send hidden postings by email on
request. secondly we will have a starting side and an open posting side like
germany.indymedia. the structure of the side is explained in our editorial
policy, in practice you can experience it on germany.indymedia.
 
> >but, as a matter of fact, we do not see vienna.indymedia as a split from
> >austria.indymedia. this is wrong! and we do not see a problem that one
> >country has more than one imc (in fact the usa has more than 50 and in
> >europe you find also countries with several imc's.). a local structure is
> >more capable to act together with local communities than a centralised
> >structure.
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Once you answer these questions, you are ready to ask for an indymedia 
> >>email list – which is recommendable to have openly archived for 
> >>transparency.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >after approval we will open three mailinglists: imc.vienna.editorial (for
> >the middle column), imc.vienna (for all other points of discussion,
> >imc.vienna.tech (for tech questions and coordination)
> >
> >  
> >
> >>I suggest you dedicate a meeting or part of a meeting to these 
> >>questions. Ah you also need to decide who is going to be the liaison for
> >>process list and for finance – very important, and also for watever 
> >>other lists that you like, although you look pretty sorted in this 
> >>aspect. Remember liaisons are not representatives, they are just 
> >>channels of communication – except in finance, where the list members 
> >>actually make decisions because they usually need to be quick decisions.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >as a matter of fact, we have already answered all questions and filled
> out
> >all forms and documents before. so we do not need to wait longer.
> >our activist rudi.ratte and me are currently at the imc-process-list and
> we
> >will act as liaison. i am personally also in the imc-europe-list. but so
> far
> >we do not have a liaison in the imc-finance-list. we will decide on that
> >after starting.
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Let me know if this is too difficult to follow or to answer.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >no problem!
> >
> >best regards
> >nowak for imc.vienna
> >
> >  
> >
> --------------
> 
> >hi!
> >
> >on november 5 we had our last regular meeting. you find the protocol
> here:
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaTreffen5
> >
> >the protocol is in german, so i can give you a rough summarize in
> english:
> >at first we discussed the status of our application and we all hope that
> we
> >could start by the end of the year. then we dicussed a plenary discussion
> >about open publishing and censorship that will take place in the middle
> of
> >december. to this discussion we will invite at.indymedia and other free
> >media projects. 
> >
> 
> does this mean that the open publishing and censorship policy has not 
> been established yet? new-imc working group: can we approve an imc that 
> has not decided on this yet? (i ask this because, truly, i do not know)

no!!! sorry for this misunderstanding. in fact our group has finally decided
on this policy. this plenary discussion that will take place in mid-december
in ekh (the squat that is seriously endagered now) should be a kick-starting
event for us. we are inviting other free media projects (including
austria.indymedia) do discuss the different concepts of open publishing and
censorship. there we will be able to explain our concept to the audience,
answer questions and so forth.
you find the concept of this event here (sorry, only in
german):
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaOpenPublishingDiskussionsveranstaltung
 
 
> >after that we continued our preparations for the technical
> >structure of our coming website. we discussed a list of topic columns for
> >the side and the idea to establish a news-feed together with other free
> >media projects. in the end of our meeting we discussed moderation
> procedures
> >and decision-making process and we tried to find out how we would act
> facing
> >certain postings (discriminatory, outings).
> >  
> >
> 
> would love to hear about the decisions actually made...

in case of different opinions among us facing a discriminatory posting we
think that someone should be able to hide the posting if she/he thinks that
it is necessary. but we have to find a consenus about it as soon as
possible. in case when we think that hiding was not justified then we will
re-post the article to ensure that it will have the same place on the top of
the newswire like before.
we think that we should be very strict to act against "outings" on our page.
even in cases when the name and adress of a nazi activist is posted, we will
hide it. the recent years we have seen a lot of outings on austria.indymedia
with hardly any research done by the posting persons. we have seen pictures
of bystanders of leftist rallies with the headline: this is a nazi. in
several cases such outings had been wrong.
 
> >our next regular meeting will be on 1 december, but we are ready to hold
> >extra meetings if necessary to discuss points that you eventually raise
> >after reading our documents.
> >
> >ana, could you please answer to the recent developments after returning
> >home? and to you sphinx, could you please take a look at our documents
> and
> >make comments to us, if necessary?
> >you find our documents here:
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaMissionStatement
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaEditorialPolicy
> >http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcViennaProcess
> >
> >thanks to all of you!
> >nowak
> >
> 
> In summary I think it looks fine - I would feel a lot more confident if 
> i could speak their langualge and 'infiltrate myself' ;-) in their email 
> list, now i need to trust their documents and they look fine to me; 
> would appreciate a second look, for more support...
> 
> also about my questions, can we put a deadline now or does new-imc list 
> need an answer to them before 'clicking the clock'?
> 
> Thanks imc - vienna and specially nowak and regina for you work
> 
> ana
> 

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