[New-imc] unsubscribing lurkers or info lists vs working tool

[valentine eben]

> Hi, 
> It looks like this discussion is derailing and we are loosing the point. 
> This is not about lurkers and people who feel offended being called that. 
> This is about newimc being a working group and the newimc list being one  
> fo the tools for that group. No more, no less. 
 
I think it is more than that, the entire network resources are to help the network grow and to push 
forth a culture of media production in a non-hierarchy structure and letting as many people 
participate as possible.  
 
You need to think about it like this may be; that at some point in time the most active person in this 
list was probably Jay, at some other time Bart, then most recently at a time where there were many 
more applications per month than now Boud was the most active person practically coordinating 
everything single handedly. 
I think most people on this list learnt a lot from their(the active persons) handling the applications 
at the time the way they did. 
Now what could have been the out come, had they(active persons) proposed that lurkers be kicked out?? 
Some people would have not gotten the knowledge they have today to be able to help new imc in the 
furture. Some imcs had it a lot easier with their applications because their members had been on this 
list and knew better exactly what needs to be done and how to do it and will surely be helping others 
who apply in the future. 
 
Or may be to take your idea below what would have been of this list had they(active persons) at the 
time created new-imc-work list.?? Work could have continued here as it is continuing now; of course 
the whole working group could have lost the experience they(active individuals) provided. 
   
 
> This is about conflicting intrests between the needs of the working  
> group to have a tool to communicate and the indivudual other reasons why  
> people think they need to use this tool, this is about the interference  
> these other intrests have on the ability of the group to function. 
 
I do not see any particular interference here. What I see is refusing people the right to be on a 
global working group mailing list, without any firm justification why. 
  
> If the the people active in the newimc working group would decide to  
> create an new list (newimc-work  for example) this list would be as dead  
> as a dodo within hours, because it would loose its purpose as a  
> communication tool for people doing the newimc work. 
 
Every now an then one individual or an other based on the time avaliable to them and their skills have 
taken over from others to make sure the work here is done. The most active persons now have not always 
been the most active before here anyway. 
 
> The newimc working group has trouble functionning because of the  
> supposition that there are 117 people that can be counted on to organise  
> the group and help new imc's through the process. If it would be clear  
> how many people actually are on the list because they are active in the  
> working group, it would offer those people a possibility to assses the  
> workload they took upon themselves and it would be a lot easier to make  
> arrangements about task division etc. 
 
Come, think about it: An application comes in, those who have the time volunteer to help. The first 
person goes ahead and handles it. What should others who could have handled the same application do?? 
Again it is a volunteer list. When you can then do it. When you cannot then we should hope others can 
do. If not the applying imc will indicate and some one will take it up. That is not new on this list. 
It has always been like that. Check the archives :-)). 
Some imcs expect answer in 24hours others are more patient and wait longer.    
  
> The point  of this list is not informing people about what the  
> developements and new dynamics in the imc landscape are. if people are  
> interested in that , if people want to follow what is going on, they can  
> do so using the archives, thats why the archives of this list are public. 
 
Why should someone go to that pain when they can register in the list and follow the direct 
specificities of new groups and the discussions to handle those specificities. Which discussions 
always include more than just the most active of this working group. 
   
> The point of this list is giving swift and good support to new  
> collectives looking to join the network. And right now this list FAILS  
> its purpose. Collectives feeling the need to submit their application  
> form up to three times , collectives having to wait for a first contact  
> for several weeks or even months, is not swift and good support, ist  
> plain and simple failure of the working group. 
 
The point of this list is to help newimcs go about the process of becoming part of the network. 
Thus if someone stays here to learn how to help their own imc or future imcs join the network they are 
serving the purpose of the list. If someone wants to help they can help a new group they should and 
will do no matter if there are a thousand other volunteers in the list or just 2 volunteers. If an imc 
does not get a response then all the volunteers cannot afford it at the time.  
  
Sphinx 
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